Their only.....

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I am curious. How does an umpire have a "fan ejection?"

"It's just you 'n' me in the parking lot after the game, Blue!"

Methinks that would qualify as necessitating an ejection, fan or not.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I am curious. How does an umpire have a "fan ejection?"

It's pretty easy "IMHO" ... I just point and say you sir/ma'am are gone... they usually fold their arms and say "I'm not leaving" so I retort "yes, you are and if you aren't gone in the next two minutes your team will forfeit. works pretty well.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

It's pretty easy "IMHO" ... I just point and say you sir/ma'am are gone... they usually fold their arms and say "I'm not leaving" so I retort "yes, you are and if you aren't gone in the next two minutes your team will forfeit. works pretty well.

Must be some third world association. Just kidding.

Don't you have enough to deal with on the field? Do the rules give you the authority to forfeit a game because of a fan's actions? Do the fans get to you that easily?

Never ejected a fan, never had the authority to do something like that. Fans outside the fence are not an umpire issue. If a fan threatens you, that's not an ejection. That's 9-1-1.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Must be some third world association. Just kidding.

Don't you have enough to deal with on the field? Do the rules give you the authority to forfeit a game because of a fan's actions? Do the fans get to you that easily?

Never ejected a fan, never had the authority to do something like that. Fans outside the fence are not an umpire issue. If a fan threatens you, that's not an ejection. That's 9-1-1.

Mike, I've looked all over, and I can't find 9-1-1 in the ASA rule book. Could it be next to "FUBAR" in the German dictionary?

[cpa]

Well, I've got a couple of examples that led to the same bottom line:

14U game -- one team has blown a 7 run lead in the top of the 5th and time is running out -- after the 5th error of the inning a fan yells out "this is just HORSESH.T!! loud enough to be heard anywhere on my field or the adjacent field

All the park administration was at the other end of the complex dealing w/ something else at the time. I call time, I walk slowly to the dugout and I tell the coach -- "coach, he (the cusser) needs to remove himself". And he went.

This is exercising my authority under 10-1 of the ASA rules. And if the PU doesn't have the authority to have that fan removed, who the heck does? Every parent in the ball park EXPECTED me to remove that guy, and would have complained if I did not.

Second situation -- guy behind home plate dressed in a pig suit for a BBQ company (screened backstop so no visual distraction) is operating a "fart box". It took me a couple of innings to figure out what I was hearing but me, the catcher and the batter all figured it out when the pitcher was in her windup and this guy rips one and is quite pleased w/ himself.

Again, no park admin around. I go to the coach, tell him "the guy in the pig suit is running a fart box and has gotta go" and he goes. Any grown up coming to a ball park for kids dressed in a pig suit and running a fart box which is distracting me and the kids is damned well w/in my jurisdiction.

So yeah -- I agree 100% -- I've got more than enough to worry about ON THE FIELD -- but there are some situations that are so wierd that you have do what you have to do.

ABOUT AUTHORITY -- There are some places where you have more authority than others -- authority is not just what the rule book explicitly gives you, it is implicit in the expectations of park administrators, and to some degree the authority ceded to you by the fans.

And it varies from situation to situation. Those parents in the "horsesh.t" incident would have thought I was crazy if I held up the game for 10-15 minutes to get some administrator to come down there and accomplish what I did in 30 seconds. Now, if I was at a different park w/ a different group of people, or a more hostile group of people, or a more litigious group of people, maybe I would have called 911. But in that moment, in those 2 situations listed above, I absolutely had the authority, and it would have been ridiculous not to use it.

But normally I do leave fan conduct up to the park administrators -- but there is some "demarcation line of craziness" that will cause me to act

And one final comment -- I have NEVER, EVER threatened a forfeit in an ejection, removal, disqualification incident. Didn't need to. I don't take on the offender once I've ordered them removed. I find another coach, a head coach, someone w/ a VESTED INTEREST IN CONTINUING THE GAME AND IN GETTING ALONG W/ ME and I get them to do the removing. And it works.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by cpa

Well, I've got a couple of examples that led to the same bottom line:

14U game -- one team has blown a 7 run lead in the top of the 5th and time is running out -- after the 5th error of the inning a fan yells out "this is just HORSESH.T!! loud enough to be heard anywhere on my field or the adjacent field

All the park administration was at the other end of the complex dealing w/ something else at the time. I call time, I walk slowly to the dugout and I tell the coach -- "coach, he (the cusser) needs to remove himself". And he went.

This is exercising my authority under 10-1 of the ASA rules. And if the PU doesn't have the authority to have that fan removed, who the heck does? Every parent in the ball park EXPECTED me to remove that guy, and would have complained if I did not.

Second situation -- guy behind home plate dressed in a pig suit for a BBQ company (screened backstop so no visual distraction) is operating a "fart box". It took me a couple of innings to figure out what I was hearing but me, the catcher and the batter all figured it out when the pitcher was in her windup and this guy rips one and is quite pleased w/ himself.

Again, no park admin around. I go to the coach, tell him "the guy in the pig suit is running a fart box and has gotta go" and he goes. Any grown up coming to a ball park for kids dressed in a pig suit and running a fart box which is distracting me and the kids is damned well w/in my jurisdiction.

So yeah -- I agree 100% -- I've got more than enough to worry about ON THE FIELD -- but there are some situations that are so wierd that you have do what you have to do.

ABOUT AUTHORITY -- There are some places where you have more authority than others -- authority is not just what the rule book explicitly gives you, it is implicit in the expectations of park administrators, and to some degree the authority ceded to you by the fans.

And it varies from situation to situation. Those parents in the "horsesh.t" incident would have thought I was crazy if I held up the game for 10-15 minutes to get some administrator to come down there and accomplish what I did in 30 seconds. Now, if I was at a different park w/ a different group of people, or a more hostile group of people, or a more litigious group of people, maybe I would have called 911. But in that moment, in those 2 situations listed above, I absolutely had the authority, and it would have been ridiculous not to use it.

But normally I do leave fan conduct up to the park administrators -- but there is some "demarcation line of craziness" that will cause me to act

And one final comment -- I have NEVER, EVER threatened a forfeit in an ejection, removal, disqualification incident. Didn't need to. I don't take on the offender once I've ordered them removed. I find another coach, a head coach, someone w/ a VESTED INTEREST IN CONTINUING THE GAME AND IN GETTING ALONG W/ ME and I get them to do the removing. And it works.

I'm sorry, but you are going well beyond the scope of ASA rules. If it is a local/complex/park rule which gives you that authority fine, but using 10.1 is a bit much.

[CajunNewBlue]

I should have mentioned this... I only do FED ball during the season and some USFA and AFA during the summer.... All ejections were during the FED season..... No I dont have rabbit ears (not abnormally so.) But, we are on school property during a school event... language is appropriate to anything a teacher would allow in a hallway during normal classes. as an example: ejection on SS for saying "b*llSh*t... she also caught a in school suspension. Adults who drop the F-bomb are gone... adults who say "Blue you suck" (not that they would ever say that about me ) are ignored... till game management walks over .

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by cpa

Well, I've got a couple of examples that led to the same bottom line:

14U game -- one team has blown a 7 run lead in the top of the 5th and time is running out -- after the 5th error of the inning a fan yells out "this is just HORSESH.T!! loud enough to be heard anywhere on my field or the adjacent field

All the park administration was at the other end of the complex dealing w/ something else at the time. I call time, I walk slowly to the dugout and I tell the coach -- "coach, he (the cusser) needs to remove himself". And he went.

This is exercising my authority under 10-1 of the ASA rules. And if the PU doesn't have the authority to have that fan removed, who the heck does? Every parent in the ball park EXPECTED me to remove that guy, and would have complained if I did not.

Second situation -- guy behind home plate dressed in a pig suit for a BBQ company (screened backstop so no visual distraction) is operating a "fart box". It took me a couple of innings to figure out what I was hearing but me, the catcher and the batter all figured it out when the pitcher was in her windup and this guy rips one and is quite pleased w/ himself.

Again, no park admin around. I go to the coach, tell him "the guy in the pig suit is running a fart box and has gotta go" and he goes. Any grown up coming to a ball park for kids dressed in a pig suit and running a fart box which is distracting me and the kids is damned well w/in my jurisdiction.

So yeah -- I agree 100% -- I've got more than enough to worry about ON THE FIELD -- but there are some situations that are so wierd that you have do what you have to do.

ABOUT AUTHORITY -- There are some places where you have more authority than others -- authority is not just what the rule book explicitly gives you, it is implicit in the expectations of park administrators, and to some degree the authority ceded to you by the fans.

And it varies from situation to situation. Those parents in the "horsesh.t" incident would have thought I was crazy if I held up the game for 10-15 minutes to get some administrator to come down there and accomplish what I did in 30 seconds. Now, if I was at a different park w/ a different group of people, or a more hostile group of people, or a more litigious group of people, maybe I would have called 911. But in that moment, in those 2 situations listed above, I absolutely had the authority, and it would have been ridiculous not to use it.

But normally I do leave fan conduct up to the park administrators -- but there is some "demarcation line of craziness" that will cause me to act

And one final comment -- I have NEVER, EVER threatened a forfeit in an ejection, removal, disqualification incident. Didn't need to. I don't take on the offender once I've ordered them removed. I find another coach, a head coach, someone w/ a VESTED INTEREST IN CONTINUING THE GAME AND IN GETTING ALONG W/ ME and I get them to do the removing. And it works.

Youre going through the coach...

When you say you ejected a fan the vision is that YOU eject the fan, when instead you are going to the coach.

There is no prob with what you did.. I probably wouldnt have worried about the guy who yelled "this is horse----" .. but the fart box distracting the players is probably a little much.. But you know, people use blow horns and everything else.... heck the girls chanting is probably worse.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

I should have mentioned this... I only do FED ball during the season and some USFA and AFA during the summer.... All ejections were during the FED season..... No I dont have rabbit ears (not abnormally so.) But, we are on school property during a school event... language is appropriate to anything a teacher would allow in a hallway during normal classes. as an example: ejection on SS for saying "b*llSh*t... she also caught a in school suspension. Adults who drop the F-bomb are gone... adults who say "Blue you suck" (not that they would ever say that about me ) are ignored... till game management walks over .

Fed is another story. Then again, is there not supposed to be a school administrator on site for all games? Since it is their school and their responsibility, it would be their job to handle anything outside the fences.

BTW, who really cares who says what? How is the word "bull$hit" going to hurt anyone? Is it detrimental to the psyche of the farm kid whose chores include cleaning out the barnyard before coming to school? Unless the word is directed at someone, who really cares?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Fed is another story. Then again, is there not supposed to be a school administrator on site for all games? Since it is their school and their responsibility, it would be their job to handle anything outside the fences.

BTW, who really cares who says what? How is the word "bull$hit" going to hurt anyone? Is it detrimental to the psyche of the farm kid whose chores include cleaning out the barnyard before coming to school? Unless the word is directed at someone, who really cares?

Some umpires are really touchy about the slightest cuss word.. you'd think the poor lil thangs are gonna melt if they hear it..

I'm on the trailing end of my last kid becoming an adult.. I can assure every umpire, they have heard the word before.

[cpa]

Well, this is gonna be my last word on this -- but my wife is a school teacher and I am a parent w/ 3 kids who have all played ball growing up. I believe I have a pretty good feel for what parents and administration expect out of me when it comes to dealing with over-the-top fans.

I can tell you that in my umpiring experience that in many cases the umpire is THE authority figure at the park, unless it is a tournament, school or college setting. The lower the level of ball, the more likely it will be that "you're on your own"

Part of the problem w/ society today is that teachers and other authority figures tolerate way more than they should because of legal fears, lack of administrative support, eroding standards, etc.

So what if the kids have heard cussing before -- I can tell you where I live people expect those in authority to rein in and to curb such behavior. I,m not talking about rabbit ears umpires -- I'm talking about idiots who don't know how to act around kids, or in a church league setting, etc. The people that I work for, that my association works for, absolutely expect that sort of behavior to be dealt with.

I am not looking for it, I am not listening for it or seeking it out in any way -- but I can forcefully deal with it in a polite, most of the time discreet way when it happens -- by myself if practical, but by engaging administration if need be

I am not a prude, not particularly religious either -- just a guy w/ enough common sense to not hide behind a rule book that doesn't happen to have an explicit rule covering fart boxes or people screaming "horsesh.t" at 12 year old kids

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Some umpires are really touchy about the slightest cuss word.. you'd think the poor lil thangs are gonna melt if they hear it..

I'm on the trailing end of my last kid becoming an adult.. I can assure every umpire, they have heard the word before.

LOL.... whatever.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by cpa

Well, this is gonna be my last word on this -- but my wife is a school teacher and I am a parent w/ 3 kids who have all played ball growing up. I believe I have a pretty good feel for what parents and administration expect out of me when it comes to dealing with over-the-top fans.

I can tell you that in my umpiring experience that in many cases the umpire is THE authority figure at the park, unless it is a tournament, school or college setting. The lower the level of ball, the more likely it will be that "you're on your own"

Part of the problem w/ society today is that teachers and other authority figures tolerate way more than they should because of legal fears, lack of administrative support, eroding standards, etc.

So what if the kids have heard cussing before -- I can tell you where I live people expect those in authority to rein in and to curb such behavior. I,m not talking about rabbit ears umpires -- I'm talking about idiots who don't know how to act around kids, or in a church league setting, etc. The people that I work for, that my association works for, absolutely expect that sort of behavior to be dealt with.

I am not looking for it, I am not listening for it or seeking it out in any way -- but I can forcefully deal with it in a polite, most of the time discreet way when it happens -- by myself if practical, but by engaging administration if need be

I am not a prude, not particularly religious either -- just a guy w/ enough common sense to not hide behind a rule book that doesn't happen to have an explicit rule covering fart boxes or people screaming "horsesh.t" at 12 year old kids

Exactly... you read my mind.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Fed is another story. Then again, is there not supposed to be a school administrator on site for all games? Since it is their school and their responsibility, it would be their job to handle anything outside the fences.

BTW, who really cares who says what? How is the word "bull$hit" going to hurt anyone? Is it detrimental to the psyche of the farm kid whose chores include cleaning out the barnyard before coming to school? Unless the word is directed at someone, who really cares?

the correct term around here is "cow pattie" not the other....

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by cpa

I can tell you that in my umpiring experience that in many cases the umpire is THE authority figure at the park, unless it is a tournament, school or college setting. The lower the level of ball, the more likely it will be that "you're on your own"

Well ask yourself.. if they are so worried about it, WHY are you the only figure there?

Maybe the different route to take is to tell them what is going on and tell them they need to have someone there. This is what I did last year with the 10U rec parents who were out of control. When the "purple" team was playing, I made the league prez have someone there, because it was affecting my younger umpires.