Had this play- and no one was happy..including me

[kfo9494]

iNeed some help on this one--

The right handed batter swings at a pitch and the ball only hits the bottom of the ball-- for some strange reason the ball is spinning wildly and goes about ten feet high and then falls down right in front of the plate still spinning but moving so slowly toward third base. All of us (batter, catcher and umpire) are stunned thinking it was rolling foul in what feels like 5 seconds. However the ball remains in fair territory spinning like a top. -- The ball is appox three feet to the right of the plate just in front of the batter's box. As coaching are yelling for the runner to head toward first, there is a collision between the batter and the catcher basically still in the batter's box. This forces the runner out into the playing field about five or six feet as the batter runner and catcher are both trying to make a play or advance to first base. (nothing flagrant or intentional just a 'I'm going this way' thing) --
Now the batter-runner has been forced inside toward the field of play, the catcher, after a muff, picks up the ball and throws to first hitting the batter-runner on the shoulder. The batter-runner was trying to get to the running lane but was still in fair territory due to the collision at the plate.
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I called the batter-runner out for not being in the running lane.
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Needless to say- one coach was not happy and wanted obstruction due to the batter-runner could not get to the running lane because of the collision and the direction it pushed her player. The other coach didn't really complain but felt it should have been interference since the catcher could not get to the ball.
If was one of those plays you would just have to see in Jr Varsity softball. The two collided in the batter's box but seemed to do a little dance about five feet into the playing field. I could see the reason the coach was wanting obstruction.
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Can someone help with the batted ball falling right in front of the plate and the obstruction/interference rule. Not just this play but others
thanks

[whiskers_ump]

Not going into the other part, just your last question.

Both batter and catcher are doing their jobs when the ball is this close to
BB, normally a no call, unless intend could be proved either way.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by kfo9494

iNeed some help on this one--

The right handed batter swings at a pitch and the ball only hits the bottom of the ball-- for some strange reason the ball is spinning wildly and goes about ten feet high and then falls down right in front of the plate still spinning but moving so slowly toward third base. All of us (batter, catcher and umpire) are stunned thinking it was rolling foul in what feels like 5 seconds. However the ball remains in fair territory spinning like a top. -- The ball is appox three feet to the right of the plate just in front of the batter's box. As coaching are yelling for the runner to head toward first, there is a collision between the batter and the catcher basically still in the batter's box. This forces the runner out into the playing field about five or six feet as the batter runner and catcher are both trying to make a play or advance to first base. (nothing flagrant or intentional just a 'I'm going this way' thing) --
Now the batter-runner has been forced inside toward the field of play, the catcher, after a muff, picks up the ball and throws to first hitting the batter-runner on the shoulder. The batter-runner was trying to get to the running lane but was still in fair territory due to the collision at the plate.
>
I called the batter-runner out for not being in the running lane.
>
Needless to say- one coach was not happy and wanted obstruction due to the batter-runner could not get to the running lane because of the collision and the direction it pushed her player. The other coach didn't really complain but felt it should have been interference since the catcher could not get to the ball.
If was one of those plays you would just have to see in Jr Varsity softball. The two collided in the batter's box but seemed to do a little dance about five feet into the playing field. I could see the reason the coach was wanting obstruction.
>
.
Can someone help with the batted ball falling right in front of the plate and the obstruction/interference rule. Not just this play but others
thanks

Didn't we just beat the hell out of this play or was that on another board?

Cannot call OBS on a fielder making a play on a batted ball. INT is a possibility, but according to ASA's umpire manual should probably just be considered a "train wreck" as long as both players were just doing what they are supposed to be doing (to which Whiskers was referring). As long as one players did not "push" (read: control) the other's movements.

It is obviously one of those things that you just have to see before deciding what should be done.

[NM FP Ump]

I will have to rule “interference” on the BR, as there was contact between F2 and BR. Kill the play right then and there, and the 3 ft. lane issue disappears. Sure, both BR and F2 are slow to get the play started (based on the presumed trajectory of the hit ball) but that circumstance did not affect the play at all.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by kfo9494

...The batter-runner was trying to get to the running lane but was still in fair territory due to the collision at the plate....

The running lane does not start until 30' down the base line. Maybe she wasn't trying TOO hard to get into the lane.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NM FP Ump

I will have to rule “interference” on the BR, as there was contact between F2 and BR. Kill the play right then and there, and the 3 ft. lane issue disappears. Sure, both BR and F2 are slow to get the play started (based on the presumed trajectory of the hit ball) but that circumstance did not affect the play at all.

How long would you like the BR to wait for the catcher to clear before attempting to advance to 1B?

[NM FP Ump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

How long would you like the BR to wait for the catcher to clear before attempting to advance to 1B?

I wouldn't want the BR to wait at all. I would like to have her swing at the pitch and, if she hits it, run to first base (like her coach has instructed her to do). By remaining stationary, she has invited the interference call.

I am interpreting the play using NFHS rules (and only 2 years of OJT) and not ASA rules (and your vast knowledge and OJT). Maybe I still need some educating....

I should have asked this question first: "Which ruleset was this game played under?"

[kfo9494]

It was NF high school
thanks for the responce- and since this was my first game of the year things can only get better (I hope).
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this was a play that was hard to call unless you see the play. I agree with the no Obstruction since F2 was trying for the ball.
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Sorry if this has already been talked about but sometimes you think you have seen everything until you call your next game.

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by NM FP Ump

I am interpreting the play using NFHS rules (and only 2 years of OJT) and not ASA rules (and your vast knowledge and OJT). Maybe I still need some educating....

I should have asked this question first: "Which ruleset was this game played under?"

Scott - you can't get "educated" if you don't listen. You followed the expert's post by stating that you weren't buying it.

Both ASA and NFHS agree that if contact occurs between the B-R and F2 in the batter's boxes or within a couple steps, that both are doing what is expected of them and the correct call is - - - - No Call! Play on!

I have that in writing from a member of the NFHS Softball Rules Committee. You should check your NFHS umpires manual, page 46 - Collisions.


WMB

[NM FP Ump]

WMB,

Thanks for citing the umpires manual, that helps me understand the area that I am obviously having trouble with.

IRISHMAFIA,

I guess I still do need some educating.

[Andy]

I could be reading something into the OP, but here is my take:

Since there seemed to have been a delay from the time the ball was hit until the batter-runner started for first base, I say that the BR was not doing what she was supposed to be doing. She should be running as soon as she makes contact with the ball. Since she was standing there in the batter's box watching the ball, she interfered with F2's attempt to play the ball - I've got interference.

[Stu Clary]

But Andy, couldn't the same be said of the catcher?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

I could be reading something into the OP, but here is my take:

Since there seemed to have been a delay from the time the ball was hit until the batter-runner started for first base, I say that the BR was not doing what she was supposed to be doing.

She must have thought it was foul and the umpire wasn't making verbal foul calls in this game.

Sorry, couldn't help myself

[wadeintothem]

hmmm hmmm hmmm..

Well as much as I hate being wrong.. that never stopped me before.

INT could very well have been a good call...

The application directive regarding BR/F2 train wreck applies when everyone is doing what they are supposed to be doing.. it is not all encompassing.


A batter standing in the batter box drooling on herself while the catcher is trying to get a batted ball..

Would not fall within that parameter.

I got no problem with the call or no call (no call is what was made).. but train wreck does not _always_ apply with BR/F2.

In fact, its darn near intentional when everyone is yelling at you to run and you just cant figure out what to do.

OBS isnt even in the picture or realm of possibility.

[IRISHMAFIA]

As previously posted, this is a play that one has to see to make a decision and there is no one-size-fits-all answer.