Probably a Dumb Question

[shipwreck]

fitump56, at least fix your signature line. While drinking a????? two six packs a day. Dave

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by fitump56

That's a crock, it isn't the job of post 12 ed to teach these things.

No, but putting a halt to perpetuating the problem by issuing passing grades is their job.

Have you ever interviewed a person for a public contact type of job only to find out their spelling and grammar skills are sub-high school level and you are looking at a diploma from an accredited university?

This is no different than the kid who cannot make change out of a dollar for a $.77 purchase without the register giving them the correct amount to pay out. And please don't tell me this is an exaggeration. I've been dealing with this type of college educated people for years. Simple 3rd grade math and you have an adult with a college diploma at a loss.

No, the general intelligence level of this country has been going downhill for a couple of decades now and our generation hasn't the courage to stop it.

Getting hung up on speeling and punctuation, ; is soooooo yesteday. these kids commo just fine, it's you that draws the old timey barriers.

Really? Tell that to the customer which just awarded a multimillion dollar contract to the competition because of the weak communication skills of your staff. Again, been there, done that.

[CecilOne]

Interesting that this topic started out about punctuation in a rule book written by the NCAA itself, not some sub-standard "graduate".

My grammar and punctuation are not perfect, but they are a lot better because my mother would not tolerate improper usage in our home.

Maybe we could start with not converting nouns to non-existent verbs (texted, emailed, faxed, texting) just to be lazy about "sent an e-mail ".

[/RANT]
back to softball

[Stu Clary]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

back to softball

That would be my vote.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

...make change out of a dollar for a $.77 purchase...

I can't do that, sir. You gave me a buck and the register says you owe me seventy seven bucks.

Decimal? What?

[NM FP Ump]

Sorry, that was my fault, going off topic.

But it always amazes me that no matter which rule set you call, there are grammatical errors everywhere! Happens in my job too, which is really frustrating. Some day, when I retire, I will sit on a beach (or my back porch, whichever is closer) and re-write a rule set or two. Then, after an hour, I will get a life and go out and call a few games.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by greymule

Her record is.....8,000 text messages.

In one month?

If so, that's 266 a day. That's about every waking hour. She's got my daughter and her friend beat hands down.

When I got my 13 year old Daughter a cell phone, I had a plan that included 300 text messages a month. The first two weeks she had the phone, she had sent or received approx 800 tests!

When I told her of her limit, 300 per month, I said that's about 10 per day....

Her response..."Dad, you can't even get a good conversation in 10 texts!"

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NM FP Ump

Sorry, that was my fault, going off topic.

But it always amazes me that no matter which rule set you call, there are grammatical errors everywhere!

Who cares about the rule books? These publications are meant to communicate a specific idea, not be published in someone's journal or submitted for grades.

Making the rule book grammatically correct would probably increase it's size by 50% and confuse more than help.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The dumbing down of America s nothing new and it isn't all cell phones and IMs.

College students submit papers with spelling and punctuation that would not be accepted for someone my age when in the 4th grade.

It is atrocious and it is basically colleges giving up on trying to force the students to do it right.

Before you all tell me about how wrong I am, I have talked to parents who have complained to their students professors and the most response received were shrugged shoulders. My wife's nephew used my laptop to put together a paper. I've seen better spelling from my grand daughter. His parents told me it was the norm. This was confirmed by his older sister who graduated the same big time university in WalMartland.

And a big part of this can be blamed on the government for several reasons. To begin with, the advent and popularity of standardized testing (which, incidentally are by no means standard)in most states to measure school and student performance, which also get tied into the monies that districts recieve, the promotion of educators, and in some cases whether or not those teachers will be allowed to maintain their certificates in that state. This of course, leads to teachers not really teaching, but spending the school year preparing the student for the test. While this does impart some information to the student, of course, it does not impart some of the more practical lessons and elements that were taught in the days of academic freedom.

Now, add to this the PC society that we live, which has created special ed programs, which initially were really good things. However, they have broadened the spectrum so much lately, that I fear one day every student in every public school will fit into some category of SPED. This, of course, leads to the modifications of the standardized tests, which renders them no longer standard, and in many cases skews the actual data that is release to the public.

If you want the type of education that you speak of for the next few generations, then start supporting a move away from standardized testing as a cure all measurement, and also support revising the programs mentioned above.

[Skahtboi]

^ Oh...and never, ever, begin a sentence with "and." ^

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Who cares about the rule books? These publications are meant to communicate a specific idea, not be published in someone's journal or submitted for grades.

Making the rule book grammatically correct would probably increase it's size by 50% and confuse more than help.

I agree with your first thought and disagree with your second. The rules of language syntax and punctuation are in place to make communication clear, not to give the school marm a reason to rap the knuckles of little Johnny. Grammar is less important than syntax and punctuation (IMO) considering strictly clarity of communication. Poor grammar just gives an impression of illiteracy or laziness.

A rule book should be clearly written (punctuation, sentence structure, and syntax) in order to achieve its main objective - clear communication of the rules.

A rule book should use proper grammar to achieve a secondary objective - establish its authoritative position.

Who cares what grade it would get in 5th grade English class; but we should all care if it does not accomplish its primary purpose of clearly communicating the rules of the game.

A good editor would improve the ASA book. However, it is not THAT bad to begin with. And, many of the problems it does have are most likely the result of continued revision year after year.

BTW, the college grads that can't write started out as HS grads that couldn't write.

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by Dakota

BTW, the college grads that can't write started out as HS grads that couldn't write.

Who left elementary school and couldn't write.

[greymule]

Oh...and never, ever, begin a sentence with "and."

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

More recently:

"And the life of the ebony clock went out with that of the last of the gay.* And the flames of the tripods expired. And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all."

In defense of our elementary school teachers, although some of the "rules" they gave us weren't really formal rules, they were good advice for kids learning to write. Without the "don't begin with and" rule, kids tend to string short statements together with one and after the other.

I suspect that rewriting the ASA book for maximum clarity and correctness would not lengthen it much and might even shorten it slightly. I'd like to see something on the order of an annotated ASA book, like Jim Evans' effort with the OBR book. Not that I'm expecting one soon. An ASA rule book in Elizabethan English would be nice, too.

It is true that the King James bible reflects a somewhat different set of rules for English. For example, Jesus says, ". . . for their's [today, theirs] is the kingdom of heaven," and "Whom [today, who] do men say that I am?"

*In this old-fashioned usage, "joyous, happy, merry, lighthearted."

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by greymule

[B]An ASA rule book in Elizabethan English would be nice, too.

For verily I say unto you, Till the next convention, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the book.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000

Who left elementary school and couldn't write.

Patrick Ewing?