What is the NFHS "Look-Back Rule?"

[hawk65]

So what is the "look-back rule?" 8-7 states when the so-called "look-back rule" goes into effect but it does not define what the "look-back rule" is. Who does it refer to -- the runner, the batter-runner, the pitcher, the shortstop, the coach, the scorekeeper, or who? And where is that explained in the NFHS books? NOT in the definitions and NOT in 8-7. My point is these books don't explain this "look-back rule."

[DaveASA/FED]

as already mentioned 8.7 is the Look Back Rule. Each article goes on to explain an additional aspect of said rule. you quoted art. 1 already, art 2 says runner, art 3 runner, art 4 batter-runner.

If you read these articles in whole and take all these items into account you will understand when to call the lookback rule and what actions will result in a runner or batter-runner being called out for a violation of this rule.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by hawk65

So what is the "look-back rule?" 8-7 states when the so-called "look-back rule" goes into effect but it does not define what the "look-back rule" is. Who does it refer to -- the runner, the batter-runner, the pitcher, the shortstop, the coach, the scorekeeper, or who? And where is that explained in the NFHS books? NOT in the definitions and NOT in 8-7. My point is these books don't explain this "look-back rule."

Hmmm...

What is the title of Rule 8-7?

Would you feel better if Art.1 started out with, "This rule will be in effect when..."

They started the rule by telling you when it applied, and then defined the responsibilities of the runners (Art.2 - 3), the responsibilities of the B-R (Art.4) and the penalty for violating the rule (PENALTY), plus an EXCEPTION clause. What more do you want?

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

What more do you want?

He wants a definition added to Rule 2.

[DaveASA/FED]

Proposed rule change: Rule 2.35 Look Back Rule: See Rule 8.7

Does that work?

Guess not...What you would do in the game is direct the coach to Rule 8.7, if she did not violate any article of that rule that is how you would explain that she is not out under that rule. I do see what you mean, if you take the rule literally, what can or cannot the runner "look back" at. BUT as WMB stated this rule was put into effect so the pitcher can look the runner back. Once she sees the runner returning to the last base touched the pitcher can begin to get ready for the next pitch, no need to worry about turning his/her back on the runner...by rule if they started back (after a stop) then they are required to return to that base. Again on the field if someone asks, your answer would be she did not violate the look back rule. If it is not stated that she can't look back at the coach then she can(your example)....as long as her feet don't do anything that violates the articles in rule 8.7 she is good!

[cpa]

I agree that the ASA rule book could certainly be more explanatory. I know it's a different rule set, but for a much superior, EXPLANATORY version of the Look back rule, look at the rule #12.21 LOOK-BACK RULE on pages 191-193 of the 2008 NCAA Softball Rules.

You can download those off of Cactus Umpires.

[wadeintothem]

If you really are having trouble understanding the look back rule, then you need more clinics and mentoring.. and perhaps posing some questions here to clarify it.

I think look back is clear in ASA and NFHS.

A definition would muddy the waters, not clarify it.. because in order to be effective, the definition would need to simply restate the entirety of the rule.

The test is...

Pose a question concerning LBR which is not covered by rule or clarification.

If the "bases" are covered, the rule is good.

I'm sure the book will continue to be rewritten ad nauseum.. but there is certainly more than enough there to cover the situations and make the rule understandable.

[Skahtboi]

You can lead a horse to water........

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by hawk65

So what is the "look-back rule?" Who does it refer to ?

Historical reference

In the "old days," softball required the pitcher to wait for a runner to return to the base, or to make a play to force the runner back. Eventually that turned into a lot of "game playing," or taunting of the pitcher by the runner, and delay of the game.

The responsibility to get the runner back was removed from the pitcher and given to the runner. The pitcher didn't have to do anything (more than "look them back"), the umpire would call the runner out for failure to immediately return to the bag. Eventually the rule was expanded to include all the variations (one stop, time, thru 1B, etc) that you see today. A few years ago the rules were lumped together into their own section called the Look Back rule.

Now go read the book with that perspective in mind.

WMB

[hawk65]

I have read the book and have quoted all the sections in the Rules Book and Case Book and I can not find a specific statement at to what the "look-back rule" is. It states when but not who can or can not "look-back" at whom. There is no such definition or specificity as to the so-called "look-back rule." If a defensive coach were to exclaim, "She can't 'look back' at the assistant coach!!" which rule/definition/case can I quote that clearly states that is not covered by the "look-back rule?"

The Rules Book (2-30) gives a very clear definition of the Infield Fly Rule -- who it applies to and under what conditions. I can find no comparable clear description of the "look-back rule."

[JEL]

[QUOTE=hawk65] If a defensive coach were to exclaim, "She can't 'look back' at the assistant coach!!" which rule/definition/case can I quote that clearly states that is not covered by the "look-back rule?"

QUOTE]

I doubt a coach would ever say that! If they do, "Sure she can coach" should be enough.

hawk, I hope you are not too seriously befuddled about this one. The "Look-Back Rule" is clear as a bell. In the FED book, 8-7-1 states when the rule is in effect, it IS then defined by articles 2, 3, and 4.

[bkbjones]

It's time to get the dead horse animation...

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

It's time to get the dead horse animation...

That's why the horse I led to water won't drink!!!

[hawk65]

Okay, I finally get it!! Silly me!! I actually thought "look-back rule" would involve "looking" or "a look" or somebody taking a "look-back" at somebody or something! Instead it involves: location of feet within the 16-foot circle, stopping, starting, advancing, overruns, turns, direct moves, non-stop returns, etc., etc. -- none of which make any reference whatsoever to a "look" or "look back." This now makes perfect sense!! I'm going to go back to my book and see if "infield fly rule" involves "infield" or "infield fly."

I officiate only NFHS and have no reference to ASA or NCAA rules. Thanks to WMB for the brief historical reference and thanks to all of you for helping me finally understand. It took some prodding but this horse finally drank the water.

[NCASAUmp]

Also reported.