Ten Seconds...

[jwwashburn]

I did my first scrimmges yesterday.

Our association made it very clear that we will be enforcing the rule.

My partner and I had a discussion with the coache before the game. We explained the rule at length. Incredibly they were not familiar with the new rule. They seemed to completely understand it at the meeting.

In the bottom of the first, a girl had two strikes on her and was way out of the box looking at the coach and wasting time. I got to ten and she had not even started toward the box. I called Time! STRIKE THREE! The coach gave me a look as if I had stepped out of a spaceship and came to ask me about it. He wasn't actually angry so much as utterly confused.

Next inning, one of his batters got in within the ten seconds, then the pitcher took a few seconds and the batter raised her hand, said time, I said no, she stepped out anyway and the pitcher delivered a pitch about three feet outside-STRIKE THREE! Third out. I explained the rule again to him and he said that the rule was bad.

The game went along and he had one more called for a strike and the visitng team had one called for strike three.

Both coaches told me after the game that theyare glad that this happened in the first scrimmge in hopes that it won't happen in real games...we'll see.

Anybody have any experiences with it yet?

Joe In the Texas

[BretMan]

Personally, it sounds like you might be overzealous in the application of this rule. You called four of these in one game?

Here are comments on this rule change from the NFHS web site:

TIME REDUCED FOR BATTER TO BE IN BOX (7-3-1): A batter must take her place in the batter’s box within 10 seconds after the ball is returned to the pitcher. Previously, she was permitted 20 seconds. The intent of the rule is for the batter to be ready to step into the batter’s box and take her turn at bat in a timely fashion. To abuse this rule by excessive waiting or prolonged signaling from the coach, disconcerts the pitcher and is not the intent of the rule. The committee felt that 10 seconds gives the batter ample time to receive signals, get in the batter’s box and wait for the pitch. The pace of the game will be enhanced when batters comply with the 10-second rule.

Note the intent of this rule: To keep the game moving along in a timely fashion, not to bang out batters on cheap strikes.

I believe that it is better to first warn or remind batters to "get in the box". Hold off on the penalties until after your warnings have been issued if the players continue to abuse the rule. Keep this rule in your back pocket and use it only as a last resort.

[jwwashburn]

I did tell them to get in the box. Sorry, I did not put that in my original post.

Our association, acting on instruction from the State said that we are supposed to enforce the rule. So, I enforced the rule. Since this was a scrimmage, I enforced it very strictly in the hopes that it will not be necessary to enforce it later in the season.

Your use of the term "last resort" is odd. It is our only resort. The batter either gets in there or not.

Joe in Texas

[BretMan]

Well then, if you gave them a warning, then you gave them a warning. That changes my opinion of "overzealous" a little bit.

As "last resort" I meant after requesting the batter to get in the box or issuing any warnings. And after giving the batter every benefit of the doubt that your silent count of ten seconds wasn't maybe 8.5 seconds or 9.5 seconds...

If they have ten seconds and they're just about to step in the box when my silent count hits ten, I'll probably pause another second or two to let them settle in. If they're constantly pushing the ten second limit, I'll probably say something like, "Let's go batter", to let them know to speed it up.

The next step (ie: last resort) for me would be to start calling penalty strikes. I think that the umpire can keep the game moving along with good game management techniques before resorting to the automatic called strikes.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Well then, if you gave them a warning, then you gave them a warning. That changes my opinion of "overzealous" a little bit.

As "last resort" I meant after requesting the batter to get in the box or issuing any warnings. And after giving the batter every benefit of the doubt that your silent count of ten seconds wasn't maybe 8.5 seconds or 9.5 seconds...

If they have ten seconds and they're just about to step in the box when my silent count hits ten, I'll probably pause another second or two to let them settle in. If they're constantly pushing the ten second limit, I'll probably say something like, "Let's go batter", to let them know to speed it up.

The next step (ie: last resort) for me would be to start calling penalty strikes. I think that the umpire can keep the game moving along with good game management techniques before resorting to the automatic called strikes.

Bret,
I'm going to disagree. Warnings of "don't do that" seldom work for long. Apparently Texas is taking the same approach Pennsylvania is. We had one of the rule interpreter meetings last night and were told just about the same that Joe's association and state were told. This rule seems to work pretty well in the college game. I would not be surprised in a year or two to see it in ASA.
I agree with telling the teams that they're in violation when you're doing a scrimmage - everybody is in the scrimmage to get rid of the rust and get familiar with the rule changes. It sounds like Joe's coaches got to see it being done right.

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

My partner and I had a discussion with the coache before the game. We explained the rule at length. Incredibly they were not familiar with the new rule. They seemed to completely understand it at the meeting.

What meeting are you referring to, the plate conference or the NFHS meeting? Sounds to me like the coach may have selective memory.

Rule 7-3-1 says the batter shall not delay the game and must take her position in the batter's box within 10 seconds. A portion of the penality (ART. 1) says that failure of the batter to be ready within 10 seconds after the ball has been returned to the pitcher the umpire shall call a strike.

There's nothing mentioned about the umpire having to give a warning.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000

What meeting are you referring to, the plate conference or the NFHS meeting? Sounds to me like the coach may have selective memory.

Rule 7-3-1 says the batter shall not delay the game and must take her position in the batter's box within 10 seconds. A portion of the penality (ART. 1) says that failure of the batter to be ready within 10 seconds after the ball has been returned to the pitcher the umpire shall call a strike.

There's nothing mentioned about the umpire having to give a warning.

It's a scrimmage - not a game. I approach scrimmages much differently than I do games - I suspect that most do.

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by Steve M

It's a scrimmage - not a game. I approach scrimmages much differently than I do games - I suspect that most do.

Agreed. Scrimmages are more relaxed.

[NCASAUmp]

Actually, I think it's the perfect time to make that kind of call. A scrimmage should reflect how things go in an actual game. If you hadn't made the call, you would have only set the expectation in the future that the rule means nothing. If anything, you helped those teams by reminding them that there are rules, and those rules will be enforced.

And as for a "warning," well, you could have told the offending coach between innings to be mindful of the rule. In your case, their first warning came the first time you called the strike. Nothing wrong with going either way, as long as it only happened that one time per inning. All subsequent strikes were well-warranted.

[3afan]

i did my first 4 scrimmages yesterday - 2 on the plate ... the rule was in the back of my mind but never really had a girl stay out so long that it came into play ...

I have 6 more scrimmages scheduled right now, maybe it will come up in one of those. I kinda hope it does so I can "deal with it" ...

[SWFLguy]

I worked my first "early bird" game Saturday. I had one batter who was coming close to getting a called strike, I just told her to get in the box and had no problems after that. I hope they get the message by Tuesday when the games are for "countsies" !

[jwwashburn]

I gave a warning at about 5 seconds because it was a scrimmage and the coaches had never mentioned the rule to the girls. I hope that the word gets around and we will not have to call it much during the season. The way I figure it is if I call it every single time in the scrimmages, they will get the idea.

I wish they would use the same rule that NFHS Baseball uses-keep one foot in the box. Strolling around for ten second is such a waste of time. ASA J.O. has a similar rule, if I remember correctly.

Joe in Texas

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

...I wish they would use the same rule that NFHS Baseball uses-keep one foot in the box. Strolling around for ten second is such a waste of time. ASA J.O. has a similar rule, if I remember correctly....

ASA has 2 rules dealing with batter delay.

7-3-B:

B. The batter must take the batter’s position within 10 seconds after being directed to do so by the umpire.
EFFECT: The umpire will call a strike. No pitch has to be thrown and the ball is dead.

7-3-C:

C. (Junior Olympic, Modified Pitch) After entering the batter’s box, the batter must remain in the box with at least one foot between pitches and while taking signals and practice swings.
EXCEPTIONS: The batter can leave the box:
1. If the ball is batted fair or foul.
2. On the swing, slap or check swing.
3. If forced out of the box by a pitch.
4. On a wild pitch or passed ball.
5. If there is an attempted play.
6. If time has been called.
7. If the pitcher leaves the eight-foot circle or the catcher leaves the catcher’s box.
8. On a three ball pitch that is a strike that the batter thinks is a ball.
EFFECT: If the batter leaves the batter’s box and delays play, for any other reason the umpire may warn the batter or call a strike. Any number of warnings and called strikes can be made with each batter. No pitch has to be thrown and the ball is dead.

In addition, the Rules Supplements say:

BATTER REMAINS IN BATTER’S BOX. (Junior Olympic Fast and Slow Pitch and Adult Modified Pitch Only)
This rule is not intended to penalize the player, but is used to speed up the game. The batter can still get a signal with one foot in the box and take practice swings.

If the batter leaves the box illegally, a warning should be given. Any number of warnings on the same batter may be given. A strike should not be called without a warning. One, two or three strikes may be called on the same batter under this ruling.

Previously, the NFHS rule allowed the batter 20 seconds.

It seems to me that NFHS went overboard on this one. What I like about the ASA rule (and conversely dislike about the NFHS rule) is in ASA the 10 seconds starts when the umpire instructs the batter to get into the box, whereas NFHS starts the 10 seconds when the pitcher receives the ball. Calling a strike on the batter when the pitchers is not ready to pitch just seems wrong.

Secondly, ASA emphasizes that the intent of the "foot in the box" rule (which does not exist in NFHS softball) is NOT to penalize the batter, but to speed up the game. It also says the warning should be given first.

The way NFHS has this rule written, and apparently they way the clinicians are instructing the umpires (we have not had our state clinics yet), is this is a "zap the batter" rule - zap early and zap often - until they get the message and no batter screws around anymore. Never mind that the pitcher is still wandering around and generally taking her time.

I like ASA's approach better.

[CecilOne]

1) I've been thinking what Tom said: "It seems to me that NFHS went overboard on this one. What I like about the ASA rule (and conversely dislike about the NFHS rule) is in ASA the 10 seconds starts when the umpire instructs the batter to get into the box, whereas NFHS starts the 10 seconds when the pitcher receives the ball. Calling a strike on the batter when the pitchers is not ready to pitch just seems wrong."

2) Every rule change seem to bring out clinician subjectivity and I expect my two State clinics to be different.

3) I wish those of you already on fields in warmer climates would stop rubbing it in, at least until March 13th

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

3) I wish those of you already on fields in warmer climates would stop rubbing it in, at least until March 13th

Really. I thought we were a warm weather state, but first practice was just last Monday. Scrimmages not for another two weeks.