Equipment Questions

[justcallmeblue]

Had a 1st round playoff Mens SP ASA

One team was using a 1B's glove in Right Center. It was brought to my attention, but not in any objectionable way (it came about as a rsult of the next paragraph). I told him there there is no specifications in the rulebook as to what glove a player can wear unless it exceeds measurements. I came home and re-read the ASA rulebook and believe that I am correct based on Rule 3 Section 4 where it says "A glove/mitt can be worn by any player.The dimensions of any glove cannot exceed the specifications. . ." Am I Correct or am I missing something???

Also:
The opposing team had a bat that was weighted down, I didnt see any markings for an official warm up bat. The bat weighed a ton, Big Pappi woulda had a hard time swinging it. In pre-game, I told the team rep to remove it and that if you are going to use it, take it ouside your dugout and out of play - I didnt want to see it. Well, it popped up more than once, and finally (after realizing that it was the same bat because someone was using it in the field of play in the warmup area) I asked for it to be removed from the field of play. They werent too happy believe it or not they complained and argued. THIS BAT WAS NEVER USED AT THE PLATE. . .Once again, I told them to take it out of the field if they wanted to use it. Finally, they did

In this case, what could I have done better to ensure it never came back once I warned them in ground rules - - what would you do if it did come back. . . .To me, its like having a lead pipe on the field. . .I would eject the team rep for not listening to me.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

Had a 1st round playoff Mens SP ASA

One team was using a 1B's glove in Right Center. It was brought to my attention, but not in any objectionable way (it came about as a rsult of the next paragraph). I told him there there is no specifications in the rulebook as to what glove a player can wear unless it exceeds measurements. I came home and re-read the ASA rulebook and believe that I am correct based on Rule 3 Section 4 where it says "A glove/mitt can be worn by any player.The dimensions of any glove cannot exceed the specifications. . ." Am I Correct or am I missing something???

Nope, rule was changed before the 2006 season

Also:
The opposing team had a bat that was weighted down, I didnt see any markings for an official warm up bat. The bat weighed a ton, Big Pappi woulda had a hard time swinging it. In pre-game, I told the team rep to remove it and that if you are going to use it, take it ouside your dugout and out of play - I didnt want to see it. Well, it popped up more than once, and finally (after realizing that it was the same bat because someone was using it in the field of play in the warmup area) I asked for it to be removed from the field of play. They werent too happy believe it or not they complained and argued. THIS BAT WAS NEVER USED AT THE PLATE. . .Once again, I told them to take it out of the field if they wanted to use it. Finally, they did

In this case, what could I have done better to ensure it never came back once I warned them in ground rules - - what would you do if it did come back. . . .To me, its like having a lead pipe on the field. . .I would eject the team rep for not listening to me.

Well, you could have done something I once did, walked out to and threw the illegal warm up bat over the fence and told the manager if I see that bat again, he was gone..

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, you could have done something I once did, walked out to and threw the illegal warm up bat over the fence and told the manager if I see that bat again, he was gone..

I would've just given the team one last warning. Next player to bring it out is tossed. If it's not a legal bat, it's not safe to be on the field.

I would have grabbed the bat after the first warning, put it over with my equipment bag, and tell them they'll get it back after I send it to the local softball office (if it was league play) or after I send it to our district UIC or Commissioner (tournament play). Teams know not to bring that stuff on my field around here because they know I'll take it from them. I know, I know, no rule justification for it, but you can't imagine how many thanks I've gotten from our local ASA officers or the city softball office for doing it.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, you could have done something I once did, walked out to and threw the illegal warm up bat over the fence and told the manager if I see that bat again, he was gone..

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I would've just given the team one last warning. Next player to bring it out is tossed. If it's not a legal bat, it's not safe to be on the field.

Or.. you could just let it go... because it is not dangerous at all and this is heavy handed OOO. The intent of ASA rules is to prevent a bat from being dangerous when in play or in some cases equipment which is dangerous because it may fly off the bat. It is not to address warm up or other practice equipment which is not dangerous. Some teams use the heavy warm up bats to warm up, others buy the adjustable weighted bats. There are no problems with these IMO. If someone comes to bat with their adjustable weight warm up stick.. enforce the penalty.. otherwise chill out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

It is not to address warm up or other practice equipment which is not dangerous. Some teams use the heavy warm up bats to warm up, others buy the adjustable weighted bats. There are no problems with these IMO. If someone comes to bat with their adjustable weight warm up stick.. enforce the penalty.. otherwise chill out.

Really? Then why does ASA dedicate a paragragh to the Warm Up Bat?

It IS as safety issue and if you, as the umpire, do not enforce the rule and an individual is harmed by an unapproved warm-up bat, attachment or homemade device, one of the first things you will receive from legal representation provided by ASA will be a note suggesting you consider hiring a personal attorney. This is because the insurance will only cover so much and that attorney will worry about protecting ASA's concern, not how any excess punitive awards will affect you or your family.

Liability litigation is a monster and it just isn't worth testing a $5mm liability coverage because you don't want to be the bad guy with the players.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Or.. you could just let it go... because it is not dangerous at all and this is heavy handed OOO. The intent of ASA rules is to prevent a bat from being dangerous when in play or in some cases equipment which is dangerous because it may fly off the bat. It is not to address warm up or other practice equipment which is not dangerous. Some teams use the heavy warm up bats to warm up, others buy the adjustable weighted bats. There are no problems with these IMO. If someone comes to bat with their adjustable weight warm up stick.. enforce the penalty.. otherwise chill out.

In the words of my former boss... Horse poopey. Actually, I can't type what he normally said, but you get the point.

Mike's right, it is a safety issue. For example, there's a team here that took the end of a metal bat, filled it with sand, and somehow fitted it to a wooden bat handle. Nice and heavy, great for loosening up the arms to hit the long ball. However, I have no idea how this thing was constructed, and there's the definite possibility that it may fly apart while they're swinging it, nailing the catcher who's trailing the BR.

There are a million scenarios that we could all come up with that say why a non-approved bat could be dangerous in the on-deck circle, or why it's no big deal. However, the rules are rules, and the on-deck circle can have only one warm-up bat, two legal bats, or a combination of the two. Nothing else enters that circle, and it was pretty obvious that ASA had safety in mind when they wrote that rule. Restricting the on-deck circle to having only approved equipment in it is the easiest way for ASA to maintain the line between safety and peril.

OOO? Methinks not, but maybe your lawyer is better than mine.

[JPRempe]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Or.. you could just let it go... because it is not dangerous at all and this is heavy handed OOO. The intent of ASA rules is to prevent a bat from being dangerous when in play or in some cases equipment which is dangerous because it may fly off the bat. It is not to address warm up or other practice equipment which is not dangerous. Some teams use the heavy warm up bats to warm up, others buy the adjustable weighted bats. There are no problems with these IMO. If someone comes to bat with their adjustable weight warm up stick.. enforce the penalty.. otherwise chill out.

Dubya Tee Efff, mate? You might want to read that 2007 ASA Rules/Regs/Umpire Handbook thingy at least once...even if it's when you're sitting on the toilet.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by JPRempe

Dubya Tee Efff, mate?

(HIJACK ALERT)

You know, JP, most people try to save keystrokes, not use more of 'em.

[JPRempe]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

(HIJACK ALERT)

You know, JP, most people try to save keystrokes, not use more of 'em.

Considering the speed at which I type, it makes no difference at all (120wpm messy, 100wpm accurately)...

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by JPRempe

Dubya Tee Efff, mate? You might want to read that 2007 ASA Rules/Regs/Umpire Handbook thingy at least once...even if it's when you're sitting on the toilet.

While watching videos of how the world goes up in smoke? Sure!

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by JPRempe

Dubya Tee Efff, mate? You might want to read that 2007 ASA Rules/Regs/Umpire Handbook thingy at least once...even if it's when you're sitting on the toilet.

Personally, I've never been to a mens tourney where more than a few werent leaning against the warm up area or in the dugout. They are always there.

If its not enforced by ASA at tournies and obviously its not a REAL safety issue (Just simply OOO) .. then it should be allowed. Its just another thing on the long list of unenforced rules for mens games.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Personally, I've never been to a mens tourney where more than a few werent leaning against the warm up area or in the dugout. They are always there.

If its not enforced by ASA at tournies and obviously its not a REAL safety issue (Just simply OOO) .. then it should be allowed. Its just another thing on the long list of unenforced rules for mens games.

If umpires are going to ignore ASA rules "just because," then why should ASA bother writing a rule book in the first place?

As I've said before, what other umpires do is their business. When I'm on the field, I follow ASA to the best of my ability, and ASA says very clearly what's allowed on the field in the on-deck circle in rule 7-1-B. I don't care if other umpires don't enforce it. Let them get dinged for it, because I sure won't. It's clearly in the book, it's clear as to why it's in the book, and that's not OOO. That's just one O: Officiating.