trailing BR to first

[shipwreck]

Has anyone ever had their UIC tell them that they do not want the PU trailing the BR up the first base line at anytime during the game? My UIC wanted me to go straight out toward the PP about 15', stop and watch the play at first. His reasoning was that the PU can see everything he needs to from there and it is easier to get to third from there for a play. I questioned him about it so I was sure I hadn't misunderstood him. I hadn't. Funny thing about this is, most of the PU in other games were trailing BR toward first the whole tourney (like I have always done) so I doubt he had talked to them. One ump I worked with later on Saturday was wondering what I was doing, so I know he hadn't been talked to. I can't find his prescribed mechanic in any umpire manual.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

Has anyone ever had their UIC tell them that they do not want the PU trailing the BR up the first base line at anytime during the game? My UIC wanted me to go straight out toward the PP about 15', stop and watch the play at first. His reasoning was that the PU can see everything he needs to from there and it is easier to get to third from there for a play. I questioned him about it so I was sure I hadn't misunderstood him. I hadn't. Funny thing about this is, most of the PU in other games were trailing BR toward first the whole tourney (like I have always done) so I doubt he had talked to them. One ump I worked with later on Saturday was wondering what I was doing, so I know he hadn't been talked to. I can't find his prescribed mechanic in any umpire manual.

Speaking ASA

Page 216 Leaving the Plate Area and Trailing the Runner

[Andy]

Haven't heard of this one.

I have been taught to trail the BR with no runners on or with a runner on first only. With a runner on second or beyond, I will step back and look down the first baseline extended to have the angle on the play at first, then release to third base to cover any play there.

I would say that trailing down the line gives you a good angle to see the pulled foot, swipe tag, etc., no matter which way the defensive player is pulled by a throw. If you are out toward the PP and a throw pulls F3 in a direction that she is stretching straight toward you, you are straightlined and not able to offer much help to your partner. Of course, in that case, the BU may have a better angle due to the off-target throw.

Some UICs like to try something new or different from time to time, Perhaps your UIC had enough confidence in your abilities to ask you to try this change and give him some honest feedback.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

I would say that trailing down the line gives you a good angle to see the pulled foot, swipe tag, etc., no matter which way the defensive player is pulled by a throw.

I disagree (always have) about the swipe tag. From behind the runner, you may see the glove swing toward the runner, but unless there is a hard slap, there are times when you may never know if the glove actually touched the runner. For that reason I have a tendency to always shade a little toward the PP just to get a better angle at that possibility.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Andy

Haven't heard of this one.

I have been taught to trail the BR with no runners on or with a runner on first only.

Very common with a runner on first to be a bunt, slap, or some type of play where the goal is moving R1 to 2B but a very real aspiration and possibility is moving (attempting) the runner to 3B.

I dont trail much or at all with runner on 1b- too many times a play is going to develop (and develop quickly) at 3B.

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Very common with a runner on first to be a bunt, slap, or some type of play where the goal is moving R1 to 2B but a very real aspiration and possibility is moving (attempting) the runner to 3B.

I dont trail much or at all with runner on 1b- too many times a play is going to develop (and develop quickly) at 3B.

Strongly agree. In JO FP the runner from 1B always wants to go to 3B and will, unless F1, F5, or F7 get there. I still go on the field, but shade more towards the center than the foul line. As soon as the B-R hits 1B I am moving towards 3B.

And, as others have noted - never come on the field with runners in scoring position (2B or 3B)

WMB

[shipwreck]

My UIC didn't want us trailing the BR down the first base line even with nobody on base. He is a very good and respected umpire. He does many D1 games every year.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

My UIC didn't want us trailing the BR down the first base line even with nobody on base. He is a very good and respected umpire. He does many D1 games every year.

Thats probably because he is smart and there is no reason for it other than appearance. Our UIC unfortunately does want us to.

[Andy]

Wade and WMB - I was taught to trail down the 1B line with a runner on first, help with the pulled foot, swipe tag if necessary, then go diagonal across the infield to the 3B line to get an angle on a possible play at 3B, then close the distance right up the line, adjusting left or right as necessary.

I'm big and slow, but I can get to the line for the angle, then close the distance so that by the time I make a call, I'm right there.

[NCASAUmp]

If there are no runners on, I trail the BR to 1B. Usually about 5-7' inside the foul line. I usually stop at the start of the running lane, plant, and get a good look at F3's foot.

With a runner on 1B, I go towards the PP and try to get a good angle for a potential double play.

Just to clarify in case the mechanics for FP or Modified are different - I do ASA SP only. C? What C?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Andy

Wade and WMB - I was taught to trail down the 1B line with a runner on first, help with the pulled foot, swipe tag if necessary, then go diagonal across the infield to the 3B line to get an angle on a possible play at 3B, then close the distance right up the line, adjusting left or right as necessary.

I'm big and slow, but I can get to the line for the angle, then close the distance so that by the time I make a call, I'm right there.

A quick trail is no big deal.. with an understanding that your priority is the advancing runner, not the sacrifice at 1B, which is already covered by the BU.

The importance of the entire play (hit & run, bunt, slap etc) rests with whether they hold them @2 or advance to 3... or defense gets the outs.

Getting on top of a developing play at 3B is a very high priority play, if you are trailing the runner so far that the best you can do is a "good angle" at 3B, you trailed to far. IMO, you should be right there at 3B (5-6 ft at most) for the call or you didnt do it right.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

A quick trail is no big deal.. with an understanding that your priority is the advancing runner, not the sacrifice at 1B, which is already covered by the BU.

The importance of the entire play (hit & run, bunt, slap etc) rests with whether they hold them @2 or advance to 3... or defense gets the outs.

Getting on top of a developing play at 3B is a very high priority play, if you are trailing the runner so far that the best you can do is a "good angle" at 3B, you trailed to far. IMO, you should be right there at 3B (5-6 ft at most) for the call or you didnt do it right.

so a possible play at third base is "more" important than a missed tag or pulled foot at first base?

Discuss.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

so a possible play at third base is "more" important than a missed tag or pulled foot at first base?

Discuss.

It has little to no importance to the PU. Dont forget, 1B is already covered by BU.. so that is equal to its importance, it already IS covered by a competent, trained, and certified sports official.. the "trail" theory advocates double coverage for lame reason.

Lets examine a sample play to illustrate my point...

WheelsR1@1B 0 outs - Runner goes on the pitch; slap and run blooper to shallow right.

PU and BU follow the book, PU trailing the runner up 1B BU hooking in from B, great view of 1B.

R9 fields the ball and shoots to F3, F3 makes the catch, PU sees the pulled foot, which by the way - stalls his movement to B3. BU calls the out or sees the pulled foot himself. Meanwhile, back on the rest of game, while you are over there with BU patting yourselves on your fine coverage of 1/4th of the bases.. R1 has already rounded second and is full steam to 3B.

Now even in-shape speedsters like Steve M and myself (let alone most other umpires) would have trouble to even get somewhat of a decent call .. because guess what, you aint going to get close to that play.. best you can hope for is an "angle"..

but lucky, 1B was double covered.. the IMPORTANT UNCOVERED play is 3B.



3B needs a good fair call, its going to be a bang bang slide play and you need to be there to be perfect on it.. not "with an ok angle".
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Where is wade?

I'm on that call at 3B - sacrificing over coverage of 1B in a 2 man system for a good look on the lead runner - the most important to the game and to both teams.

2 man is deficient of course, and requires some sacrifices. This is one.

ASA and NFHS is wrong on their coverage with Runner on.

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With Runner on 1B and a hit, PU (assuming catch / fair /foul responsibilities are met) moves Out to the left of the F2 and slightly in, then moves immediately towards 3B keeping careful eye on his responsibility, the advancing lead runner and ready to be ON TOP of the play at 3B.

To go farther, BU ready to rotate home is an excellent option which should be implemented in 2 man.

[Harshblue]

Its unlikely the R1 would hoof it to 3rd and probably would be sliding into 2nd but I see your point .
In this situation I usually go 3 or 4 steps up the 1st base line , move to my left looking at a possible play at 2nd then move towards 3rd which at most would be 7 or 8 steps .

[Steve M]

I trail the B-r toward 1B, but never more than 10 feet down the line. One reason for this is that I am not willing to put my partner in the posiion of hearing "Well what did the PU see on that, he was in a better position than you." So I'll trail the B-R, but not far. My purpose is to help my partner, net provide something for a coach to whine about.
As for the play at 3B and priority, I've been told by a number of folks that I respect that statistic show that if a coach is going to be ejected, it is more frequently over the pulled foot or tag at 1B than any other play. My priority as PU is to trail & watch the B-R get to 1B. At that point, like Andy said, I'll but it to get to the 3B line - giving me the right angle for a play at 3B - and then head up that 3B line toward 3B.