trailing BR to first

shipwreck · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 27, 2007, 03:13pm

Has anyone ever had their UIC tell them that they do not want the PU trailing the BR up the first base line at anytime during the game? My UIC wanted me to go straight out toward the PP about 15', stop and watch the play at first. His reasoning was that the PU can see everything he needs to from there and it is easier to get to third from there for a play. I questioned him about it so I was sure I hadn't misunderstood him. I hadn't. Funny thing about this is, most of the PU in other games were trailing BR toward first the whole tourney (like I have always done) so I doubt he had talked to them. One ump I worked with later on Saturday was wondering what I was doing, so I know he hadn't been talked to. I can't find his prescribed mechanic in any umpire manual.

IRISHMAFIA · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 27, 2007, 04:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by shipwreck

Has anyone ever had their UIC tell them that they do not want the PU trailing the BR up the first base line at anytime during the game? My UIC wanted me to go straight out toward the PP about 15', stop and watch the play at first. His reasoning was that the PU can see everything he needs to from there and it is easier to get to third from there for a play. I questioned him about it so I was sure I hadn't misunderstood him. I hadn't. Funny thing about this is, most of the PU in other games were trailing BR toward first the whole tourney (like I have always done) so I doubt he had talked to them. One ump I worked with later on Saturday was wondering what I was doing, so I know he hadn't been talked to. I can't find his prescribed mechanic in any umpire manual.

Speaking ASA

Page 216 Leaving the Plate Area and Trailing the Runner

Andy · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 27, 2007, 04:24pm

Haven't heard of this one.

I have been taught to trail the BR with no runners on or with a runner on first only. With a runner on second or beyond, I will step back and look down the first baseline extended to have the angle on the play at first, then release to third base to cover any play there.

I would say that trailing down the line gives you a good angle to see the pulled foot, swipe tag, etc., no matter which way the defensive player is pulled by a throw. If you are out toward the PP and a throw pulls F3 in a direction that she is stretching straight toward you, you are straightlined and not able to offer much help to your partner. Of course, in that case, the BU may have a better angle due to the off-target throw.

Some UICs like to try something new or different from time to time, Perhaps your UIC had enough confidence in your abilities to ask you to try this change and give him some honest feedback.

IRISHMAFIA · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 27, 2007, 04:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

I would say that trailing down the line gives you a good angle to see the pulled foot, swipe tag, etc., no matter which way the defensive player is pulled by a throw.

I disagree (always have) about the swipe tag. From behind the runner, you may see the glove swing toward the runner, but unless there is a hard slap, there are times when you may never know if the glove actually touched the runner. For that reason I have a tendency to always shade a little toward the PP just to get a better angle at that possibility.

wadeintothem · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 27, 2007, 07:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

Haven't heard of this one.

I have been taught to trail the BR with no runners on or with a runner on first only.

Very common with a runner on first to be a bunt, slap, or some type of play where the goal is moving R1 to 2B but a very real aspiration and possibility is moving (attempting) the runner to 3B.

I dont trail much or at all with runner on 1b- too many times a play is going to develop (and develop quickly) at 3B.

WestMichBlue · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 27, 2007, 09:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Very common with a runner on first to be a bunt, slap, or some type of play where the goal is moving R1 to 2B but a very real aspiration and possibility is moving (attempting) the runner to 3B.

I dont trail much or at all with runner on 1b- too many times a play is going to develop (and develop quickly) at 3B.

Strongly agree. In JO FP the runner from 1B always wants to go to 3B and will, unless F1, F5, or F7 get there. I still go on the field, but shade more towards the center than the foul line. As soon as the B-R hits 1B I am moving towards 3B.

And, as others have noted - never come on the field with runners in scoring position (2B or 3B)

WMB

shipwreck · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 28, 2007, 07:18am

My UIC didn't want us trailing the BR down the first base line even with nobody on base. He is a very good and respected umpire. He does many D1 games every year.

wadeintothem · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 28, 2007, 07:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by shipwreck

My UIC didn't want us trailing the BR down the first base line even with nobody on base. He is a very good and respected umpire. He does many D1 games every year.

Thats probably because he is smart and there is no reason for it other than appearance. Our UIC unfortunately does want us to.

Steve M · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 30, 2007, 10:30pm

I trail the B-r toward 1B, but never more than 10 feet down the line. One reason for this is that I am not willing to put my partner in the posiion of hearing "Well what did the PU see on that, he was in a better position than you." So I'll trail the B-R, but not far. My purpose is to help my partner, net provide something for a coach to whine about.
As for the play at 3B and priority, I've been told by a number of folks that I respect that statistic show that if a coach is going to be ejected, it is more frequently over the pulled foot or tag at 1B than any other play. My priority as PU is to trail & watch the B-R get to 1B. At that point, like Andy said, I'll but it to get to the 3B line - giving me the right angle for a play at 3B - and then head up that 3B line toward 3B.

bkbjones · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 01, 2007, 02:35am

I don't get it. I haven't been height/weight proportionate in many moons, have had 11 leg operations, a triple bypass, and probably need a lobotomy.

Not to brag, BUT...
I can get my infamous fat a$$ out from under the bus and over to make the call at 3B (and I am talking a 90, not a 45 or somewhere in between, and at an appropriate distance of 8-12 feet, because 5-6 feet to make a call is TOO DAMNED CLOSE IMHO) after trailing the B/R up the line long enough to see what I should see.

So...I guess I don't see what the problem is with employing the mechanics as prescribed. I'm not going to beat anyone in a 100-yard dash, maybe not a 100-foot dash...but I can get to where I need to be.

wadeintothem · #11 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 01, 2007, 03:20pm

With a runner rounding 2B after trailing BR and staying trailed long enough to see a pulled foot, you couldnt get anywhere near a 12ft 90 on 3b. Thats less than 2 seconds to go, you are fooling yourself.

3afan · #12 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 01, 2007, 05:54pm

you can easily trail the runner 10-12 ft up the line and still get in good position for a call at 3rd if you need to .... you don't want to go 30' to first in that sitch

jimpiano · #13 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 01, 2007, 08:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve M

I trail the B-r toward 1B, but never more than 10 feet down the line. One reason for this is that I am not willing to put my partner in the posiion of hearing "Well what did the PU see on that, he was in a better position than you." So I'll trail the B-R, but not far. My purpose is to help my partner, net provide something for a coach to whine about.
As for the play at 3B and priority, I've been told by a number of folks that I respect that statistic show that if a coach is going to be ejected, it is more frequently over the pulled foot or tag at 1B than any other play. My priority as PU is to trail & watch the B-R get to 1B. At that point, like Andy said, I'll but it to get to the 3B line - giving me the right angle for a play at 3B - and then head up that 3B line toward 3B.

I agree with you Steve on the mechanic.

bkbjones · #14 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 01, 2007, 08:52pm

I'm not saying I'm racing 30 feet up the line...but I WILL be in position to see what I need to see at 1B AND will be in position at 3B every freakin time.

Anything else is just balderdash. We don't have to run 60 feet from point A to point B. If you think I am fooling myself or anyone else, come on out to Seattle and I'll be happy to show you. We have 60-70 teams playing this coming weekend (Fri-Sun) in Metros and we could hook you up with a motel. But bring good shoes, because we do expect hustle with purpose at all times.

The only two people I know I could beat in a footrace would be my mom and my sister. But we're not in a footrace.

And...and...why do I feel like I am pi$$ing against the wind...

SRW · #15 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 01, 2007, 09:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkbjones

... come on out to Seattle and I'll be happy to show you. We have 60-70 teams playing this coming weekend (Fri-Sun) in Metros and we could hook you up with a motel. But bring good shoes, because we do expect hustle with purpose at all times...

Sure! I'm the Assistant UIC, so let me know if you'll be flying in. I'll pick you up at SeaTac, cart you around town, and show you the Space Needle. Then I'll expect you to show me what you got on the fields. Give me a reason to put you on the schedule Sunday.