ASA slow pitch illegal bat rule....

[dsimp8]

You are going through the dugout checking bats and you find one that has a crack in it. You tell the player to put it in his bag and not to bring it out. What happens if a player brings it up to the plate and attempts to use it? This is a rec league so we don't take the bats to the UIC like we do in sanctioned tourneys.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by dsimp8

You are going through the dugout checking bats and you find one that has a crack in it. You tell the player to put it in his bag and not to bring it out. What happens if a player brings it up to the plate and attempts to use it? This is a rec league so we don't take the bats to the UIC like we do in sanctioned tourneys.

The batter is out. ASA 7-6-C.

[SRW]

ASA 7.6.B. Batter's out and ejected for entering the batter's box with the altered bat.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by SRW

ASA 7.6.B. Batter's out and ejected for entering the batter's box with the altered bat.

I wouldn't consider a cracked bat to be altered. Just illegal.

[dsimp8]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I wouldn't consider a cracked bat to be altered. Just illegal.

Declare him out for the bat? I had to throw a bat out last night but I made sure the coach knew about the bat and not just the player it belonged to. That put the onus on the coach. I knew most of these players (and the one who's bat it was) so I knew it wasn't going to come back out. I think the coach thought he and/or the player would be ejected. Would you consider it unsportmanlike conduct for bringing out a piece of equipment that they KNEW had been removed from the game?

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I wouldn't consider a cracked bat to be altered. Just illegal.

Well, we would disagree.
ALTERED BAT: When the physical structure of a legal softball bat has been changed.
ILLEGAL BAT: A bat that does not meet the requirements of an official bat or warm-up bat.

A cracked softball bat, by definition, is altered... not illegal.

[celebur]

Originally Posted by SRW

Well, we would disagree.
ALTERED BAT: When the physical structure of a legal softball bat has been changed.
ILLEGAL BAT: A bat that does not meet the requirements of an official bat or warm-up bat.

A cracked softball bat, by definition, is altered... not illegal.

I disagree. It is clear to me that the definition for an altered bat presumes that the change was done deliberately. I have yet to see anyone deliberately crack their bat.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by SRW

...ILLEGAL BAT: A bat that does not meet the requirements of an official bat or warm-up bat...

Fine. But what are the requirements of an official bat?

ASA Rule 3, Section 1. OFFICIAL BAT.
...F. SURFACE. The official bat shall be smooth with a maximum surface roughness of 250 micro inches. It shall be free of burrs and visible cracks, and shall not have exposed rivets, pins, rough or sharp edges or any form of exterior fastener that would present a hazard.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by dsimp8

You are going through the dugout checking bats and you find one that has a crack in it. You tell the player to put it in his bag and not to bring it out. What happens if a player brings it up to the plate and attempts to use it? This is a rec league so we don't take the bats to the UIC like we do in sanctioned tourneys.

Forfeit. ASA 5.4.F

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Forfeit. ASA 5.4.F

By far the best answer thus far.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Fine. But what are the requirements of an official bat?

That's a good argument, and I could go with that. However, I've always been given the interpretation that an Altered bat was once an official softball bat, but has been altered (intentionally or through normal use) to make it out of compliance... and that an Illegal bat is a bat that never was an official softball bat.

I assumed that cracked bat in the OP at one time met the requirements of being an official bat and was not on the non-approved list... so it was legal at one time.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by dsimp8

Declare him out for the bat? I had to throw a bat out last night but I made sure the coach knew about the bat and not just the player it belonged to. That put the onus on the coach. I knew most of these players (and the one who's bat it was) so I knew it wasn't going to come back out. I think the coach thought he and/or the player would be ejected. Would you consider it unsportmanlike conduct for bringing out a piece of equipment that they KNEW had been removed from the game?

1. Yes, declare him out for the bat.
2. No, you don't know them. Team A is Team A, Team B is Team B, and you are Team Z. You don't have friends out there, nor do you hve enemies. You have two teams wanting to play, and you are the arbitrator.
3. Don't let them put altered/illegal/cracked anything "back in their bag." don't let it in the dugout. How far is the parking lot? The trunk is a good place for it...that way you don't offend a "friend."
4. No, the onus is not on the coach. It's on the player who is in that batter's box with a bat you have tossed.
5. It's ALL sanctioned, whether it's a championship tournament or Tuesday night beer league. When you are out there on that field with Bubba and Jim Bob, you ARE the UIC.
6. Enforce the effin rules. If it bothers you that you might have to run Frankie Joe, then you might want to consider doing a different field or a different league.

[NCASAUmp]

I consider a cracked bat to be an altered bat. Its characteristics have been altered after it rolled off the assembly line, and a crack in the bat is a huge safety hazard. How it was altered was, 99% of the time a bat is cracked, completely unintentional. However, if a player disobeys the order to get rid of it for that game, then I would say that warrants an ejection, which is backed by the rules.

When I find a cracked bat or a bat that doesn't pass through the ring, I always find the coach/captain and tell them to get rid of it. I usually say it loudly enough so that everyone in the dugout can hear me without question, and my voice does tend to carry when I'm in uniform.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Did anyone bother reading the definitons?

An altered bat is a legal softball bat that has been changed. Not that has changed, but has BEEN changed.

An illegal bat is one that does not meet the requirements of a legal bat. IOW, rule 3.1.

A bat that shifts out of spec of rule 3.1 through normal use and wear is simply an illegal bat. A bat that someone acted to alter it's physical characteristics is an altered bat.

[SRW]

I've re-read case plays and rules and even the clinic guide ... talked to three other umps, including Wild Bill, and I believe I'm convinced it's illegal, not altered. I stand corrected. (well, sitting, actually, but yeah..)