Busch League or smart play? Illegal? Drop 3rd Strike.

[MarkPSkins]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Why would they do so? My guess - in the sitch of runners running around the basepaths, it is much more likely for fielders to assume that if they see a runner running around out there - that runner is someone they can throw out... but in the D3K sitch, the fielders KNOW that a runner between home and first in this sitch cannot be a valid runner.

R1 on 2b, R2 on 1b, ground ball hit to F6, tosses to F4 to start double play, R2 is out, but continues on to third. BR is safe at first. R1 now standing on 3rd, but R2 is caught between 2b and 3b, so F3 not hearing or KNOWING the out at 2B makes a play on her throwing the ball away scoring R1 and now BR is on 2B, at least. That's why she would do it in one scenario.

In the above scenario, the runner is wrong, but in the orginal scenario the rules reward the offense for deceit and pretending to be in play after KNOWINGLY being put out on strike three with first base occupied and run for the sole purpose to draw a throw. Maybe P2 thought there was two outs, maybe she is just as confused about the dropped 3rd rule as most of the softball community. But it is a trick designed to confuse the defense.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by MarkPSkins

R1 on 2b, R2 on 1b, ground ball hit to F6, tosses to F4 to start double play, R2 is out, but continues on to third. BR is safe at first. R1 now standing on 3rd, but R2 is caught between 2b and 3b, so F3 not hearing or KNOWING the out at 2B makes a play on her throwing the ball away scoring R1 and now BR is on 2B, at least. That's why she would do it in one scenario.

In the above scenario, the runner is wrong, but in the orginal scenario the rules reward the offense for deceit and pretending to be in play after KNOWINGLY being put out on strike three with first base occupied and run for the sole purpose to draw a throw. Maybe P2 thought there was two outs, maybe she is just as confused about the dropped 3rd rule as most of the softball community. But it is a trick designed to confuse the defense.

The underlying idea in your post, it seems to me, is that deceit should be illegal in fastpitch softball. Say goodbye to the fake bunt; the slap; the delayed steal; the changeup; the rise ball pitch; ... maybe you get the point.

The fact of the matter is that if team A understands the 3rd strike rule and team B does not, and because they do not they get taken advantage of, guess whose fault that is? The 3rd strike rule is dead simple, so the only group of the "softball community" where "most" would be confused by it would be first year 12U players who have just moved up from 10U B.

In the general case, the catcher KNOWS whether she caught the pitch, and the batter does NOT know. That, I think, is the basis for the exception.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by MarkPSkins

In the above scenario, the runner is wrong, but in the orginal scenario the rules reward the offense for deceit and pretending to be in play after KNOWINGLY being put out on strike three with first base occupied and run for the sole purpose to draw a throw. Maybe P2 thought there was two outs, maybe she is just as confused about the dropped 3rd rule as most of the softball community.

If the BR can be coached to run after every strike 3, why, on earth, can't F2 be coached to know the count and know what to do? Coaches are shouting directions at the defense all game long; why would we blame the offense for something that they are allowed to do, just because someone perceives 'some' unfairness about it? I think the BR should always run to first after strike three. Why wait around trying to figure out whether or not F2 caught the ball?

Originally Posted by MarkPSkins

But it is a trick designed to confuse the defense.

So is a delayed steal, and a fake bunt, and pretty much everything the offense does. Should we takes outs there too?