Coach wants help making a proper appeal

[NewNCref]

Working a Dixie Ponytails game tonight, and encountered something I never have before. I'm PU, close play at the plate, R1 stealing from 3B on PB, but R1 is safe, under tag by pitcher, so I come up with big "SAFE" call. R1 runs into dugout, and defensive coach asked for time, and comes to see me. "I want to appeal," he says, "She missed home plate." "Okay," I say, "you'll have to make a proper appeal though." Well, turns out the coach doesn't know how to make a proper appeal, and so he wants me to tell him how to make one. I am baffled for a moment, and then tell him that I can't do that. He begins to argue with me, at which point I tell him that he needs to get back in the dugout, and that I will not be telling him how to make a proper appeal.

1.) Should I have told him how to make a proper appeal? My logic was, if I tell him, I could be giving him an unfair advantage. It's his job to know how to make a proper appeal.

2.) Does it change matters that R1 would have still been safe? She clearly touched home plate, so on the appeal she still would have been safe.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[NSABlue]

Sorry but I'm not familiar with Dixie Ponytail (?) rules. Can the coach make a live ball appeal? You did not say anything in your post about the ball being dead or you having called time out, so I'm wondering, what did you want the coach to do?

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by NSABlue

Sorry but I'm not familiar with Dixie Ponytail (?) rules. Can the coach make a live ball appeal? You did not say anything in your post about the ball being dead or you having called time out, so I'm wondering, what did you want the coach to do?

I had called time to brush off the plate, after ball was returned to the pitcher. The pitcher needed to take a position in the circle, wait for me to call "play", and then step off, make appeal, throw to catcher, and have catcher touch home plate.

Coach had no idea that he had to do anything other than tell me he thought she missed home plate.

[wadeintothem]

sounds like a proper appeal to me.

Does dixie require a secret handshake or code word prior to making an appeal?

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

sounds like a proper appeal to me.

Does dixie require a secret handshake or code word prior to making an appeal?

The pitcher and catcher did not do all that stuff. I was saying they needed to do that.

Coach thought all he needed to do was tell me he wanted an appeal.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NewNCref

I had called time to brush off the plate, after ball was returned to the pitcher. The pitcher needed to take a position on the rubber, wait for me to call "play", and then step off, make appeal, throw to catcher, and have catcher touch home plate.

Coach had no idea that he had to do anything other than tell me he thought she missed home plate.

Well considering she touched home plate.. just tell him she touched it.. and go on. The secret society stuff wastes time.

If she had missed it, Id go ahead and just outline the 38 step re-live ball appeal for the coach.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

sounds like a proper appeal to me.

Does dixie require a secret handshake or code word prior to making an appeal?

I wonder if they have a special decoder ring?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

I wonder if they have a special decoder ring?

HA

Well, I can see saying.. hey coach you gotta have an infielder do it.. or whatever.. but the chirades thing... no go on that.

I sure wouldnt tell a coach to go through all the simon says pitcher must step on on the plate, simon says step off the plate, put your left foot in and shake it all about call time throw the ball, do the twist sing B-I-N-G-O then say "no she touched the base coach."

Would be funny though... but thats just causing trouble over nothing.

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Would be funny though... but thats just causing trouble over nothing.

In retrospect, I completely agree that it's causing trouble over nothing. I should have just said, "coach, she touched the plate"

Does it change if R1 would be out on appeal? Would you make them do simon-says then?

And also, of course we use a decoder ring. Don't know what you guys working ASA, FED, and NCAA are using.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NewNCref

In retrospect, I completely agree that it's causing trouble over nothing. I should have just said, "coach, she touched the plate"

Does it change if R1 would be out on appeal? Would you make them do simon-says then?

And also, of course we use a decoder ring. Don't know what you guys working ASA, FED, and NCAA are using.

Personally, I think you'd have to outline the proper way to appeal in your rule set.. simply because you cant play a headgame with the coach & you cant rule "she touched the plate" because he is not appealing according to simon says, so you'd just have to tell him the proper way to do it and rule accordingly.

I'm surprised they dont allow a simple dead ball appeal though.

[NSABlue]

[QUOTE=wadeintothem]Personally, I think you'd have to outline the proper way to appeal in your rule set.. simply because you cant play a headgame with the coach & you cant rule "she touched the plate" because he is not appealing according to simon says, so you'd just have to tell him the proper way to do it and rule accordingly.

I'm surprised they dont allow a simple dead ball appeal though.[/QUOTE]

That's my question, Does Dixie allow a dead ball appeal?

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by NSABlue

That's my question, Does Dixie allow a dead ball appeal?

No.

Rule 8:08-THE BASERUNNER IS OUT:

(I)- In running or sliding for home plate, she fails to touch home plate and makes no attempt to return to the plate, when a fielder holds the ball in her hand, while touching home plate, and appeals to the umpire for the decision.

Rule 12:00- "Appeals may only be made while the ball is alive. (EXCEPTION: Batting out of order is an appeal play which may be made while the ball is dead.)"

[Daryl H. Long]

I Googled Dixie Ponytail Rules.

According to Rule 12.00 only live ball appeals are allowed. Pitcher has to have ball in the circle and umpire must make ball live. Once the announcement is made they are appealing the pitcher must throw to base missed or go tag it herself to complete the appeal. Runners may advance at own risk after pitcher or ball leaves the circle.

That said Dixie Ponytails must be one of the last organizations to not allow the dead ball appeal. Remember the dead ball appeals bacame popular with most codes because it seemed that only live ball appeals made teams "jump through hoops" to complete it. Additionallly no one was sure of the proper procedure anyway.

Don't take the humorous quips and comments deriding the procedure that some have written personally. You know...jump down spin around pick a dress of cotton, etc. Most of us umpire in codes allowing dead ball appeals so that is why we are so incredulous there is a code sticking only to the archaic way of appealing.

That said I would have handled the situation like some others in this sitch to save time.

As a umpire with 26 years of experience I could quickly run them through the process as a learning tool for both teams. (I would bet the other coach didn't know either).

As a new ump you could just say "Coach, I cannot tell you how to properly appeal. But to save time the runner did touch the plate. Please find out how to properly appeal before asking again during this game"

After the game you could be courteous and tell him the procedure. It should only take a minute or so.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by NewNCref

Working a Dixie Ponytails game tonight, and encountered something I never have before. I'm PU, close play at the plate, R1 stealing from 3B on PB, but R1 is safe, under tag by pitcher, so I come up with big "SAFE" call. R1 runs into dugout, and defensive coach asked for time, and comes to see me. "I want to appeal," he says, "She missed home plate." "Okay," I say, "you'll have to make a proper appeal though." Well, turns out the coach doesn't know how to make a proper appeal, and so he wants me to tell him how to make one. I am baffled for a moment, and then tell him that I can't do that. He begins to argue with me, at which point I tell him that he needs to get back in the dugout, and that I will not be telling him how to make a proper appeal.

1.) Should I have told him how to make a proper appeal? My logic was, if I tell him, I could be giving him an unfair advantage. It's his job to know how to make a proper appeal.

2.) Does it change matters that R1 would have still been safe? She clearly touched home plate, so on the appeal she still would have been safe.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

I think you made the proper statement.

It is the coach's job to know the rules.

After the game I would have been more than willing to educate the coach on the proper appeal and where to find it in the rule book.

[blueump]

FED is one set of of rules that not only allows dead ball appeals, but also allows a simple verbal appeal. If this were a FED ball, the appeal would already have been done properly, but since this is Pony, the players would have to wait till we had a live ball again. I'm assuming time had been called since the coach was at home plate discussing the play.