What to Say ?

Chess Ref · #1 (**permalink**) Tue May 01, 2007, 09:10am

I had one of THOSE games last night. Men's SP . I was out of position on a banger. Also we kicked a play that was basically a clusterfud.

Now to my question. I am PU. Runners on 1B & 2B. 1 out.

Batter hits a line drive at F4 . He drops it. I say nothing. Chaos ensues. We get it sorted out. Kinda-not really-we blew it.

My partner thinks I should have said no catch on the dropped line drive. At the time it happened really quick. This wasn't a gaper where i have time to say no catch as the ball is pinballing around the outfield. I don't know what I could have said to clear up the mystery for everyone.

So on these kinda plays should I say no catch or kinda treat it like the fair ball if you hear nothing it's fair ??

NCASAUmp · #2 (**permalink**) Tue May 01, 2007, 09:20am

The problem I have with umpires who say "no catch" is that doing so can also create confusion. They may not hear the "no" part and think you yelled "catch." That's also why you never hear them say "fair ball." On a trapped ball, make the proper trapped signal (in ASA, it's the same signal as "safe"), and let the players figure it out. Sometimes, I hold onto the signal a second or two longer than I normally would, just in case there's confusion. If a coach gets upset about confusion on the field over something like this, they have no one to blame but themselves for bad coaching.

I've seen exactly what you've described happen dozens and dozens of times on the field. Balls that hit the ground that players thought were caught, infield flies that an infielder didn't catch, and fair balls deep down the line. Let the play unfold and sort out the mess when progress has stopped.

mcrowder · #3 (**permalink**) Tue May 01, 2007, 09:50am

I hate "no catch" - most of the time, people just hear "Catch" as it is the inflected syllable of the phrase, and chaos reigns.

1 question - did he drop it on purpose? If so, treat as an IFF.

If not ... just signal safe emphatically a couple of times.

IRISHMAFIA · #4 (**permalink**) Tue May 01, 2007, 10:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcrowder

I hate "no catch" - most of the time, people just hear "Catch" as it is the inflected syllable of the phrase, and chaos reigns.

If you don't call the out, the ball must be in play

Quote:

1 question - did he drop it on purpose? If so, treat as an IFF.

Well, it's an out and the runners are not forced, but an intentional drop is not treated as an IFF. An IDB is immediately DEAD and the BR is out. Runners cannot advance, the defense cannot appeal for leaving the base before the touch.

If it was an IFF, which is not the case in this scenario, you cannot have an IDB.

mcrowder · #5 (**permalink**) Tue May 01, 2007, 01:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, it's an out and the runners are not forced, but an intentional drop is not treated as an IFF. An IDB is immediately DEAD and the BR is out. Runners cannot advance, the defense cannot appeal for leaving the base before the touch.

If it was an IFF, which is not the case in this scenario, you cannot have an IDB.

I stand corrected.

Andy · #6 (**permalink**) Tue May 01, 2007, 03:10pm

I worked with a partner a few weeks ago that used the safe signal in this scenario, he also yelled out the word "SAFE"....I'm not sure if I like that or not.....

NCASAUmp · #7 (**permalink**) Tue May 01, 2007, 03:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

I worked with a partner a few weeks ago that used the safe signal in this scenario, he also yelled out the word "SAFE"....I'm not sure if I like that or not.....

My gut reaction to that is that yelling "safe" where there is no play would also create a split second of confusion, especially with teams who haven't had that umpire call their games before. Teams would figure it out quickly, but I think that's just bad style. The book says to signal, so I signal.

scottk_61 · #8 (**permalink**) Tue May 01, 2007, 03:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

So on these kinda plays should I say no catch or kinda treat it like the fair ball if you hear nothing it's fair ??

There was a time when we were taught to signal safe and say "NO" but that has changed over time too.
I like the safe and "NO" approach on a very close one but as you said, it is fair until you hear me tell you its not etc etc.

DaveASA/FED · #9 (**permalink**) Tue May 01, 2007, 03:45pm

My $0.02 worth...I will verbalize "NO" and signal safe. I do the same for a missed tag. Just "NO" nothing else verbally. That way they are thinking did s/he catch it they hear "NO", fielder thinks did I get her/him they hear "NO" and it can't be misinterped like saying tag, or catch along with the "NO"

I try to do this when possible, sometimes you are trying to run to get into position for the play that is ensueing so a long safe can't be made, some times the signal doesn't happen at all, but I will always work to get the "NO" out. Again JMO...I am most likely wrong!!