You make the call

[NCASAUmp]

Here's something that happened to me last year, and I want to see what you all think of it...

In this league, teams have a 2 over-the-fence home run limit. The team on offense has already hit one out. R1 is on third with 2 outs. B2 steps up and hits one over the fence. R1 trots home and touches home plate. As the batter rounds third, the pitcher says something unsportsmanlike that I didn't hear (but my partner heard it). Before the batter touches home plate (still 45 feet or so away), he starts yelling and cursing, heading towards the mound (ignoring home plate) to get ready to fight. I immediately eject him, and my partner ejects the pitcher.

So...

1 - Does R1 count?
2 - Does the home run count towards their limit?
3 - Does B2 count as a run?
4 - How many outs ya got?

I'd just like to see what everyone says to this.

[3afan]

I have no idea since I don't do slow pitch but I'll take a stab at it:

1 - Does R1 count? YES
2 - Does the home run count towards their limit? YES
3 - Does B2 count as a run? YES, UNLESS THE OTHER TEAM APPEALS THAT HE NEVER TOUCHED HOME LATE
4 - How many outs ya got? 2, UNLESS THEY MAKE THE APPEAL IN #3 AND GET THE 3RD OUT THAT WAY

am I close?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by 3afan

I have no idea since I don't do slow pitch but I'll take a stab at it:

1 - Does R1 count? YES
2 - Does the home run count towards their limit? YES
3 - Does B2 count as a run? YES, UNLESS THE OTHER TEAM APPEALS THAT HE NEVER TOUCHED HOME LATE
4 - How many outs ya got? 2, UNLESS THEY MAKE THE APPEAL IN #3 AND GET THE 3RD OUT THAT WAY

am I close?

You're close, but not quite.

Let me clarify one thing (and then clean it up in my OP). He had just rounded 3rd and was about 45 feet away from home.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

You're close, but not quite.

Let me clarify one thing (and then clean it up in my OP). He had just rounded 3rd and was about 45 feet away from home.

Not sure how this makes a difference - he's not abandoned his attempt at home (yet), and even ejected he should be allowed to finish his award.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Not sure how this makes a difference - he's not abandoned his attempt at home (yet), and even ejected he should be allowed to finish his award.

I would rule the batter out since he never touched home plate.
That would be the third out but the run counts.
The home run counts towards the limit.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by 3afan

I have no idea since I don't do slow pitch but I'll take a stab at it:

1 - Does R1 count? YES
2 - Does the home run count towards their limit? YES
3 - Does B2 count as a run? YES, UNLESS THE OTHER TEAM APPEALS THAT HE NEVER TOUCHED HOME LATE
4 - How many outs ya got? 2, UNLESS THEY MAKE THE APPEAL IN #3 AND GET THE 3RD OUT THAT WAY

am I close?

Speaking ASA, yes as the rules read. There has been an interpretation the past few years that would rule out a runner who committed an unsportsmanlike act while runner the bases.

However, that individual is no longer in the umpiring ranks and referencing his interpretations may irritate some present members of the NUS.

Of course, if you are lucky, another member of the offense will come out and try to pull his teammate away from the pitcher and that, my friend, is an out for runner assistance.

BTW, this is the same whether FP or SP save the HR limit.

[greymule]

On an ASA test a few years ago, there was a question that went something like this:

No outs, Abel on 3B, Baker hits a fly ball to deep left. Thinking the ball will be caught, Baker throws his bat in anger. The ball goes over the fence.

Ruling: Baker is out for USC and Abel is returned to 3B.

The question didn't say so specifically, but it seemed to indicate that Abel had not crossed the plate before the USC (the thrown bat came directly after the ball was hit).

(I guess that would count against the team's HR limit, too.)

Naturally, the ruling on this question generated a pile of "what ifs" and inferences. One inference was that if a runner deliberately crashed F2 before touching home plate, even if F2 did not have the ball, the runner would be not only ejected, but also called out for USC, with no run scoring.

Perhaps this, like many test questions, made its way to the casebook. When I get a chance, I'll look for it.

[NCASAUmp]

Well, here's what I had ruled on the field, and why. Let me know what you guys think.

The background on the batter is that he's known for getting/using doctored bats and using them in any level of play (including co-ed recreational). The runner on third counts (of course). As the batter rounded third, the pitcher had said, "you couldn't hit that ball 200 feet without that illegal bat of yours." His response was (as he clearly started towards the mound), "I'll hit that ball 200 feet up your @$$, and take your fat boy (referring to the right-center fielder) with it, too!" I ejected the batter, as I felt that if I did not immediately act to "break things up," a fight would have definitely and inarguably ensued. Being that he was ejected while on the bases, he became the third out. I did not let him score as a runner, as I have trouble letting someone score who just did a gross USC resulting in his ejection. What was I to do? Let them fight it out, then let him touch home plate? Since the rules make no stipulation on whether or not all bases are touched, the home-run counts towards the team's limit.

His team ended up crushing the other team anyway, so whether or not he counts as a run or as an out had no effect on the game. I feel pretty confident in my call, but I sometimes wonder what others would rule if they were in that situation.

Thoughts?

[Ed Maeder]

Did you check the bat?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder

Did you check the bat?

We've been checking his bats over and over. Our state UIC has even looked at them.

They're good. And by "good," I mean indistinguishable from actual Freak 98s (which is what he's supposedly using).

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder

Did you check the bat?

Hey Ed,
The head bat checker, your region 15 UIC, should be in your neighborhood by now (yes, I know, Alaska is a damned big neighborhood). Ask WBS if there is an easy way to check a Freak. That's a Miken Freak...not me.

Jan. 1, 2008 can't get here fast enough...no more Freaks in ASA play after that.

I wish I could have gone to that NUS. Heck, a year ago I had already begun making plans. In fact, I think I told you in Portland I would see you in April. My how things change...

And...I would have one run, an out, and yes the HR counts toward their limit. And if they don't like it, this fat boy would stick it 200 feet up their @$$,

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Well, here's what I had ruled on the field, and why. Let me know what you guys think.
I did not let him score as a runner, as I have trouble letting someone score who just did a gross USC resulting in his ejection.

Can you (or piano, who agreed with this ruling) provide rule support for calling him out?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Can you (or piano, who agreed with this ruling) provide rule support for calling him out?

Speaking ASA, there is clearly no rule to back up the OUT call, but there is a case play (or used to be - I don't have a case book beyond the '04 book... I think it is about time I ordered a new one...) 10.8-1 that supports calling a player out for "flagrant misconduct" and the play is, in fact, a batter who just hit a home run. The batter is ruled out, ejected, his run does not count, and the runner on 3rd base is returned. The case play is silent on whether the runner on 3rd had or had not already scored, but since the flagrant miscondut in the play was throwing the bat in anger, I would assume he had not scored yet.

That case play is the interpretation Mike was referring to earlier in this thread.

[wadeintothem]

An immediate ejection is not the best way to "break up a fight". Thats like saying throwing lots of gas on a fire is the best way to put out a fire. I keep a little note pad in my line up card holder.. pull out your note pad (or something to write on) and start taking notes.

Sort it out, eject, whatever, and decide after it all goes down.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Speaking ASA, there is clearly no rule to back up the OUT call, but there is a case play (or used to be - I don't have a case book beyond the '04 book... I think it is about time I ordered a new one...) 10.8-1 that supports calling a player out for "flagrant misconduct" and the play is, in fact, a batter who just hit a home run. The batter is ruled out, ejected, his run does not count, and the runner on 3rd base is returned. The case play is silent on whether the runner on 3rd had or had not already scored, but since the flagrant miscondut in the play was throwing the bat in anger, I would assume he had not scored yet.

That case play is the interpretation Mike was referring to earlier in this thread.

Obviously I agree with the way you handled the play.

Case book 2005/06 refers to a batter who threw his bat in anger, only to have the ball wind up over the fence. Umpire rules dead ball, out for flagrant misconduct and ejected...all runners put back.

In your case the flagrant misconduct took place after the run scored.

I would also defer to your judgement on the best way to prevent mayhem since you knew the players.

You are not a news reporter taking notes at the scene of a fight.