What do you have?

bossman72 · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Apr 08, 2007, 08:46pm

Brought this over from the baseball board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NGIZ...elated&search=

In baseball, this would have been ruled obstruction since the pitcher is not protected any more after the deflection.

Would the ruling be different in softball?

Please give me any casebook (preferred) or rule book references that i can point softball umpires to look at (NFHS please).

WestMichBlue · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Apr 08, 2007, 08:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossman72

In baseball, this would have been ruled obstruction since the pitcher is not protected any more after the deflection.

Are you sure? From the video aftermath it appears the umpires called interference - or incidental contact. But they allowed the out.

Quote:

Would the ruling be different in softball?

To steal Dakota's thunder - did the pitcher have control of the ball prior to contact by the B-R? If yes, the call is interference. Can you see deviation (slowup) on the part of the B-R before the pitcher got the ball? Then call obstruction. (NFHS specifically rules this way this year. 2-47.3: Initial play, step and a reach definition)

WMB

wadeintothem · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Apr 08, 2007, 09:00pm

I dont think there is any question its obstruction in SB or BB. I think SB trained umpires who are a little more proactive on OBS would have more quickly ruled it, but credit to the PU who eventually made the right call.

The JC will lose their protest. The fact they want INT is even more laughable.

wadeintothem · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Apr 08, 2007, 09:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

Are you sure? From the video aftermath it appears the umpires called interference - or incidental contact. But they allowed the out.

To steal Dakota's thunder - did the pitcher have control of the ball prior to contact by the B-R? If yes, the call is interference. Can you see deviation (slowup) on the part of the B-R before the pitcher got the ball? Then call obstruction. (NFHS specifically rules this way this year. 2-47.3: Initial play, step and a reach definition)

WMB

Lordie.. since when is contact required for OBS? The runner is obstructed before possession, its clear.

I'll admit I dont know College Baseball rules.. but I highly doubt that is in there that contact is required.

For NFHS I KNOW contact is not required for OBS. But I know many BB umps love to rule everything a train wreck, so it may not get called.

For ASA, there is exactly 0 question that this is OBS IMO.

Interference is a laughable request by the protesting team.

Dakota · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Apr 08, 2007, 09:55pm

wade, you're awfully intense about a poor video from a terrible angle.

The "thunder" WMB was talking about was from the NFHS board, and my question was can you be sure the pitcher did not have possession before the runner was actually impeded? (I said nothing about contact, and I'm pretty sure WMB didn't mean to imply that contact was necessary.)

wadeintothem · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Apr 08, 2007, 10:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota

wade, you're awfully intense about a poor video from a terrible angle.

I dont think its that bad. AND I"M NOT INTENSE !!!11oneone~!

Quote:

The "thunder" WMB was talking about was from the NFHS board, and my question was can you be sure the pitcher did not have possession before the runner was actually impeded?

I am sure I'm sure.

Quote:

(I said nothing about contact, and I'm pretty sure WMB didn't mean to imply that contact was necessary.)

Could be right about what he meant re: INT, I was responding to what he said.

mcrowder · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 09, 2007, 09:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Lordie.. since when is contact required for OBS? The runner is obstructed before possession, its clear.

Contact is not required for OBS - but contact OR some effect on the runner is required. This runner didn't slow until the last second (apparently), and was not obstructed until he reacted (which, admittedly, only comes a HAIR before contact). This is OBS in any ruleset I've worked, with either size ball. Kudos to the umpires who reversed their initial call and got it right. The protest will go nowhere.

whiskers_ump · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 09, 2007, 10:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota

wade, you're awfully intense about a poor video from a terrible angle.

The "thunder" WMB was talking about was from the NFHS board, and my question was can you be sure the pitcher did not have possession before the runner was actually impeded? (I said nothing about contact, and I'm pretty sure WMB didn't mean to imply that contact was necessary.)

If in softball, looks like a step and reach to me.

mcrowder · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 09, 2007, 10:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiskers_ump

If in softball, looks like a step and reach to me.

Step and a reach applies to where the ball goes after first contact with the fielder. This ball has gone several yards from that - MUCH more than a step and a reach from the fielder. You don't reinstate step-and-a-reach by catching up to your deflection... your protection ended a long time ago.

SRW · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 09, 2007, 10:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Step and a reach applies to where the ball goes after first contact with the fielder. This ball has gone several yards from that - MUCH more than a step and a reach from the fielder. You don't reinstate step-and-a-reach by catching up to your deflection... your protection ended a long time ago.

Methinks ol' Whiskers was yanking your chain... and it appears to have worked!