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-   -   What do you have? (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/33506-what-do-you-have.html)

bossman72 Sun Apr 08, 2007 08:46pm
What do you have?
 
Brought this over from the baseball board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NGIZ...elated&search=


In baseball, this would have been ruled obstruction since the pitcher is not protected any more after the deflection.

Would the ruling be different in softball?


Please give me any casebook (preferred) or rule book references that i can point softball umpires to look at (NFHS please).

WestMichBlue Sun Apr 08, 2007 08:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossman72
In baseball, this would have been ruled obstruction since the pitcher is not protected any more after the deflection.
Are you sure? From the video aftermath it appears the umpires called interference - or incidental contact. But they allowed the out.

Quote:
Would the ruling be different in softball?
To steal Dakota's thunder - did the pitcher have control of the ball prior to contact by the B-R? If yes, the call is interference. Can you see deviation (slowup) on the part of the B-R before the pitcher got the ball? Then call obstruction. (NFHS specifically rules this way this year. 2-47.3: Initial play, step and a reach definition)

WMB

wadeintothem Sun Apr 08, 2007 09:00pm
I dont think there is any question its obstruction in SB or BB. I think SB trained umpires who are a little more proactive on OBS would have more quickly ruled it, but credit to the PU who eventually made the right call.

The JC will lose their protest. The fact they want INT is even more laughable.

wadeintothem Sun Apr 08, 2007 09:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestMichBlue
Are you sure? From the video aftermath it appears the umpires called interference - or incidental contact. But they allowed the out.



To steal Dakota's thunder - did the pitcher have control of the ball prior to contact by the B-R? If yes, the call is interference. Can you see deviation (slowup) on the part of the B-R before the pitcher got the ball? Then call obstruction. (NFHS specifically rules this way this year. 2-47.3: Initial play, step and a reach definition)

WMB
Lordie.. since when is contact required for OBS? The runner is obstructed before possession, its clear.

I'll admit I dont know College Baseball rules.. but I highly doubt that is in there that contact is required.

For NFHS I KNOW contact is not required for OBS. But I know many BB umps love to rule everything a train wreck, so it may not get called.

For ASA, there is exactly 0 question that this is OBS IMO.

Interference is a laughable request by the protesting team.

Dakota Sun Apr 08, 2007 09:55pm
wade, you're awfully intense about a poor video from a terrible angle.

The "thunder" WMB was talking about was from the NFHS board, and my question was can you be sure the pitcher did not have possession before the runner was actually impeded? (I said nothing about contact, and I'm pretty sure WMB didn't mean to imply that contact was necessary.)

wadeintothem Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
wade, you're awfully intense about a poor video from a terrible angle.
I dont think its that bad. AND I"M NOT INTENSE !!!11oneone~! ;)

Quote:

The "thunder" WMB was talking about was from the NFHS board, and my question was can you be sure the pitcher did not have possession before the runner was actually impeded?
I am sure I'm sure. :D
Quote:
(I said nothing about contact, and I'm pretty sure WMB didn't mean to imply that contact was necessary.)
Could be right about what he meant re: INT, I was responding to what he said.

mcrowder Mon Apr 09, 2007 09:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem
Lordie.. since when is contact required for OBS? The runner is obstructed before possession, its clear.
Contact is not required for OBS - but contact OR some effect on the runner is required. This runner didn't slow until the last second (apparently), and was not obstructed until he reacted (which, admittedly, only comes a HAIR before contact). This is OBS in any ruleset I've worked, with either size ball. Kudos to the umpires who reversed their initial call and got it right. The protest will go nowhere.

whiskers_ump Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
wade, you're awfully intense about a poor video from a terrible angle.

The "thunder" WMB was talking about was from the NFHS board, and my question was can you be sure the pitcher did not have possession before the runner was actually impeded? (I said nothing about contact, and I'm pretty sure WMB didn't mean to imply that contact was necessary.)
If in softball, looks like a step and reach to me.

mcrowder Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskers_ump
If in softball, looks like a step and reach to me.
Step and a reach applies to where the ball goes after first contact with the fielder. This ball has gone several yards from that - MUCH more than a step and a reach from the fielder. You don't reinstate step-and-a-reach by catching up to your deflection... your protection ended a long time ago.

SRW Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
Step and a reach applies to where the ball goes after first contact with the fielder. This ball has gone several yards from that - MUCH more than a step and a reach from the fielder. You don't reinstate step-and-a-reach by catching up to your deflection... your protection ended a long time ago.
Methinks ol' Whiskers was yanking your chain... and it appears to have worked! ;)

Dakota Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
...Kudos to the umpires who reversed their initial call and got it right. The protest will go nowhere.
Where are you guys getting the final call information?

bossman72 Mon Apr 09, 2007 04:44pm
can anybody provide a casebook play or a rule citation to support your call?

thanks!

wadeintothem Mon Apr 09, 2007 08:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Where are you guys getting the final call information?
One of the umpires apparently involved/with knowledge of the protest is posting in the BB board.


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