From another site:

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Either what I am hearing from 18U division folks is a bunch of bunk, or the different pitching distance is doing damage. I don't really care much wheher it is 40, 43, 46, 50... just make it all the same for the same age group. Some parts of the country aren't overrun with 18U teams, and need to be able to combine A and Gold teams into invitational tournaments. While trying to defend the process, you have illustrated my point. Lots of discussion is fine, unless there is a problem that actually needs to be addressed for the good of the sport.

Maybe the people I hear from are just whiners, but it sure seems to me like the pitching distance at 18U is chaos right now. That chaos needs to be addressed, not discussed with no action taken. The problem is bigger than just ASA, but the sport surely could have used some leadership on this issue from the NGB.

The more you listen to some people, the more you will find that whatever sanctioning body under which a team played the previous week is always better then of the org. this week.

Three years ago, I heard from a bundle of youth softball folks about how the three-game guarantee is the format of the future. Well, that lasted just one year at the JO level. A few years ago, we all heard about how ASA had to mandate face masks on batting helmets. ASA did what these folks wanted. Did not take a full day before people started complaining about the extra $15 they were going to need to spend to get an "approved" face mask. Even though these people had over a year's notice, they still weren't smart enough to figure this one out. People are now starting to "demand" mandated face protection for pitchers and infielders at the corners. If ASA is dumb enough to follow through with this, how long do you think it will take for the whining about the need to buy new equipment to begin?

I've stopped taking this information so seriously. I'll listen and store it away someplace for future reference.

You seem to insist that a lack of change was "no action". The general council took action. They acted by rejecting the proposed change, the same as Federation did.

[wadeintothem]

Why does it even really matter Dakota?

I'm quite sure next year we will all work the same amount as is our normal routine and nothing will be affected by ASA not changing the pitching distance. The sky is not falling; there will definately be no mass exodus from ASA.. and our phone will still ring for the tournies.

In short.. it doesnt matter.

It is probably a foregone conclusion that it will eventually be changed IMO.. but in the mean time, we call as we always call.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The more you listen to some people, the more you will find that whatever sanctioning body under which a team played the previous week is always better then of the org. this week.

I noted the problem was bigger than ASA. ASA 18 Gold, U-trip 18 Majors, and Fla high school are all 43'. ASA 18A and B, and U-trip 18U, AFA, NSA and non-Fla NFHS are all 40', but word is NSA has moved to 43' in 2007 and AFA will be offering selective 43' nationals.

ASA and NFHS are pretty much the only organizations with enough clout to end this. They've both chosen to do nothing. While deciding to do nothing is a decision, it is still doing nothing.

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

there will definately be no mass exodus from ASA

The snowball is gathering size and speed here, but that has to do mostly with local issues. And, as I said to Mike, it is not an ASA-only issue, but ASA is one of 2 organizations with the clout to lead on the issue.

I don't intend to keep beating this horse. After all, I'm an umpire, not an 18U coach. Hopefully, ASA has the wisdom to form a working group to develop consensus on this issue before next fall. It would be even better if that working group included representatives from the NFHS.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Dakota

The snowball is gathering size and speed here, but that has to do mostly with local issues. And, as I said to Mike, it is not an ASA-only issue, but ASA is one of 2 organizations with the clout to lead on the issue.

I don't intend to keep beating this horse. After all, I'm an umpire, not an 18U coach. Hopefully, ASA has the wisdom to form a working group to develop consensus on this issue before next fall. It would be even better if that working group included representatives from the NFHS.

Based on information from several top movers and shakers in NFHS, including representatives from that group will make sure there is no consensus that makes a larger group move to 43'. It IS A MAJOR SNOWBALL here in Georgia, making ASA 18A a problem child to address, and the consensus of teams, players, and coaches is that 43' is where they feel they need to play that game. Nonetheless, NFHS is adamently opposed, going on record that making that change even for 18A will hurt the high school game.

They (the NFHS rules committee) believe that there are significant numbers of schools, areas, and even complete states, where the pitching level is already so bad that they cannot mandate two feet on the pitching plate, let alone 43', without making the "have-nots" even worse competitively compared to the "haves". They believe that toughening the pitching rule in either of these two categories runs the risk of schools without competitive pitching disbanding their teams if no one can or will pitch for them. In face or that possibility, it would be inappropriate to adopt a rule making the game more competitive for the more advanced participants, if the result is reduced participation.

The obvious counter argument is that bad pitching will remain bad pitching, so why not make the game more competitive offensively, and force feed the creation of the higher level of play. After all, does NFHS baseball pitch from 55' feet to compensate for lesser pitching? Do they shoot basketball free throws from 14' to compensate? As long as ASA remains at 40', NFHS can remain at 40', being a national standard for those of high school age. If ASA moved to 43', there would be increased pressure on NFHS to change (although they have steadfastly ignored and refuted the pressure to force two feet on the pitching plate).

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

They (the NFHS rules committee) believe ...

Is there enough data yet from the Fla experiment to support or refute their fears? Have teams disbanded?

[argodad]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Is there enough data yet from the Fla experiment to support or refute their fears? Have teams disbanded?

A Florida umpire's perspective:

No HS teams disbanded that I'm aware of. The teams with bad pitching at 40' were still bad at 43'. The good pitchers loved it -- and so did potential college coaches.

In my unscientific and limited sample of games, I didn't see any pitchers who had a big problem adjusting. Both varsity and JV games seemed shorter, if anything, with more balls being put into play. I don't think any studies were planned to compare runs per game, hits per game, or ERA statistics, but my impression was that all three went up a small percentage.

[Steve M]

Mike,

You said "I understand. If I didn't have anything better to do than be the moose-crossing guard, I would have done the same." From a slow pitch ump??

[DaveASA/FED]

Good catch Steve,
Slow pitch, isn't that were you stand and watch Moose cross home plate? And guard against too high or too low pitches? Guess he would have the experience to discuss being a moose crossing guard.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Steve M

Mike,

You said "I understand. If I didn't have anything better to do than be the moose-crossing guard, I would have done the same." From a slow pitch ump??

Steve,

Need I remind you that there is more action in two innings of a SP game than there are in many entire FP games?

Need I also remind you that I worked the little ball for 22 years before moving over to softball? Got bored with that game. Too many egos and not enough action. So now I just enjoy the action and tune out the egos.

BTW, the Mooses and Bubbas in the SP softball are becoming a myth in Championship Play.

[IRISHMAFIA]

It was humorous to some level that the people for the change (ASA) would say it helped the 18U A by giving the girls who want to pitch at 43' a place to play without moving up to an already saturated 18U Gold. Meanwhile, some against the change say keeping it at 40' provides a place for the girls who don't want to or cannot pitch at 43' to play.

So, in essence, both sides of the issue believed their position helped the 18U A.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

It was humorous to some level that the people for the change (ASA) would say it helped the 18U A by giving the girls who want to pitch at 43' a place to play without moving up to an already saturated 18U Gold. Meanwhile, some against the change say keeping it at 40' provides a place for the girls who don't want to or cannot pitch at 43' to play.

So, in essence, both sides of the issue believed their position helped the 18U A.

So, those who insist on dumbing down the game the players and coaches want think that is a positive? Why haven't they mandated an alternate 12U division for the girls who don't want to or can't pitch at 40' yet, to stay at 35'?

A more reasonable solution might be to change 18 A to 43', and keep 18 B at 40'. If "they" are right, the 18 B division would come back, and teams that can't compete at Gold would stay at 18 A. If they are wrong, no one will play 18 B (and they don't now, anyway).

That's simply double-speak horsecrap for "they can't tell us how they want to play their game, we know what's best".

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

They (the NFHS rules committee) believe that there are significant numbers of schools, areas, and even complete states, where the pitching level is already so bad that they cannot mandate two feet on the pitching plate, let alone 43', without making the "have-nots" even worse competitively compared to the "haves". They believe that toughening the pitching rule in either of these two categories runs the risk of schools without competitive pitching disbanding their teams if no one can or will pitch for them. In face or that possibility, it would be inappropriate to adopt a rule making the game more competitive for the more advanced participants, if the result is reduced participation.

The obvious counter argument is that bad pitching will remain bad pitching, so why not make the game more competitive offensively, and force feed the creation of the higher level of play. After all, does NFHS baseball pitch from 55' feet to compensate for lesser pitching? Do they shoot basketball free throws from 14' to compensate? As long as ASA remains at 40', NFHS can remain at 40', being a national standard for those of high school age. If ASA moved to 43', there would be increased pressure on NFHS to change (although they have steadfastly ignored and refuted the pressure to force two feet on the pitching plate).

While I agree that this helps others understand the NFHS viewpoint, there is a signficant difference between the example rules. A pitcher who wants to have both feet on the PP can do so, as the rule allows either option. The distance woud be fixed, so a pitcher who wants 40' would have no choice.
I'm not saying this means it should be changed or not, just that the comparison is not exact.