Saw something on TV that Made Me Think!

[rwest]

I was watching ESPN and saw a play that made me think. I don't know if bases where loaded or not, but R1 attempting to score from 3rd, missed home. The catcher had bobbled the ball and instead of tagging the runner, just stepped on home. The umpire called him out. I'm wondering how this applies to softball. Any time a runner misses a base, can they just step on the base for an out (live ball appeal)? It doesn't matter that the runner was still on the playing field attempting to make it back to the missed base, does it?

Thanks!

[Dakota]

Yes, they can, so long as they somehow let the umpire know it is an appeal for the missed base. ASA does not recognize "accidental" live ball appeals. What the runner is or is not doing does not matter so long as the runner does not return to touch before the appeal is made.

[blu_bawls]

If the catcher stepped on the base intentionally and not just walking over it, it's an out. They wouldn't have to say "They missed the base" before doing it.

So I could see the umpire calling the out.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by blu_bawls

If the catcher stepped on the base intentionally and not just walking over it, it's an out. They wouldn't have to say "They missed the base" before doing it.

So I could see the umpire calling the out.

It is an appeal only if it is an appeal. Intentional stepping on the base is not the standard. The intent could be for a force out.

The fielder needs to communicate SOMEHOW that an appeal is being made. Sometimes, just stepping on the base is all that is required for the umpire to know it is an appeal. Sometimes, the fielder needs to communicate an appeal is being made. Umpires are not mind readers.

[blu_bawls]

The action of stepping on the base INTENTIONALLY is enough to constitute an appeal. Out is called.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by blu_bawls

The action of stepping on the base is enough to constitute an appeal. Out is called.

No, it's not enough. PU must know that stepping on the base is being done as an appeal. Otherwise, you will/may have accidental appeals - where the fielder does not know that he/she is making an appeal.

[IamMatt]

Originally Posted by Dakota

It is an appeal only if it is an appeal. Intentional stepping on the base is not the standard. The intent could be for a force out.

The fielder needs to communicate SOMEHOW that an appeal is being made. Sometimes, just stepping on the base is all that is required for the umpire to know it is an appeal. Sometimes, the fielder needs to communicate an appeal is being made. Umpires are not mind readers.

Having (mis?)understood that the fielder touching the missed base was the correct way to do a live ball appeal, what would you need to see/hear or whatever to know that it is an appeal? Does the catcher need to say "she missed the plate" before/during/after she is stepping on it? Would the same be true of missing other bases, and would the fielder be required to say it loud enough for the PU to hear (one-man)?

Thanks. The more I learn the less I feel like I know.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by IamMatt

Having (mis?)understood that the fielder touching the missed base was the correct way to do a live ball appeal, what would you need to see/hear or whatever to know that it is an appeal? Does the catcher need to say "she missed the plate" before/during/after she is stepping on it? Would the same be true of missing other bases, and would the fielder be required to say it loud enough for the PU to hear (one-man)?

Thanks. The more I learn the less I feel like I know.

To me, If there is intent.. if the catcher is just stepping on the base while throwing to the pitcher or accidently stepping on the base in the course of walking after a play, that is not an appeal.
If the catcher is stepping on the base with the intent that if the batter missed the base, its an appeal, I call it. I'm not there to appeal or invent an appeal for the defense .. in some ways its htbt and know it when you see it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by IamMatt

Having (mis?)understood that the fielder touching the missed base was the correct way to do a live ball appeal, what would you need to see/hear or whatever to know that it is an appeal? Does the catcher need to say "she missed the plate" before/during/after she is stepping on it? Would the same be true of missing other bases, and would the fielder be required to say it loud enough for the PU to hear (one-man)?

Thanks. The more I learn the less I feel like I know.

Umpires are not mind readers. If we were, many of us would be doing something else.

It is an appeal play. An appeal play is when an umpire cannot issue a judgment on a violation until requested to do so by the offended team. The umpire cannot just guess what is unfolding in front of him/her, the team must request the umpire acknowledge the violation. Stepping on a base with no indication of cause is not a request, but a player simply stepping on a base.

[Steve M]

Actually BluBawls, we may well all be saying the same thing. You are just not saying it clearly enough.

The original question was
"Any time a runner misses a base, can they just step on the base for an out (live ball appeal)?"

Dakota, and several others of us, replied with a clarification to the effect of
"Yes, they can, so long as they somehow let the umpire know it is an appeal for the missed base. ASA does not recognize "accidental" live ball appeals."

There must be some indication that stepping on the base was intentional and that the intent was to appeal a missed base. Without both of those, neither ASA nor Fed - or anyone else that I am aware of - recognized this as an appeal.

Based on your last comment/post/whatever
"If i see the baserunner miss the plate and I see the catcher re-act to that fact also and he either tags the runner of intentionally steps on the plate...an out will be called."
We're all in agreement.

What you said earlier seemed to show that you were recognizing that just stepping on the plate was acceptable - regardless of whether the umpire knew why the fielder was stepping on the plate. And a number of folks here read it that way - so, the clarification is needed that the fielder's intent must be somehow shown.