ASA, NFHS, NCAA hammer

[shipwreck]

It would be nice if a "hammer" signal were all the same in ASA, NFHS and NCAA. They all three vary on what they consider a hammer. I do all three and besides knowing the differences of the rules I need to make sure I do the correct hammer for what I am calling. Do any of you that call all three(ASA, NFHS and NCAA) use what version of the hammer works for you and stay with it no matter what. 3 weeks ago I was doing a ASA Class A State Tourney and I was being evaluated for NCAA ball. I was using the ASA hammer and was told to use the standard NCAA hammer since that is what I was being evaluated for. Just wondering. Dave

[ntxblue]

Not to start a highjack . . . simpler put . . . wouldn't it be nice to use the same set of rules? Utopia, but won't ever get there.

Remember what rules you are using . . . adjust to what is expected. Why would an NCAA evaluator want you to use NCAA mechanics in an ASA tourney? At least you proved that you could conform to expectations.

[shipwreck]

He was the UIC for the tourney and also was evaluating me for college ball. Dave

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

. Do any of you that call all three(ASA, NFHS and NCAA) use what version of the hammer works for you and stay with it no matter what.

Yes, possibly because I don't have NCAA or NFHS mechanics clinics available. Mine for strikes is a sidearm sweep stopping at shoulder height and then bending the elbow to 90 degrees. On base outs, the height varies with how much "hard sell", sometimes the old "reach for the sky".

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Yes, possibly because I don't have NCAA or NFHS mechanics clinics available. Mine for strikes is a sidearm sweep stopping at shoulder height and then bending the elbow to 90 degrees. On base outs, the height varies with how much "hard sell", sometimes the old "reach for the sky".

Why would you not use and overhand for a "hard sell"?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

He was the UIC for the tourney and also was evaluating me for college ball. Dave

If it was an ASA tournament, you use ASA mechanics.

Personally, I don't care for the NCAA strike/out hammer as it brings the arm too far out front. Some umpires actually make it look threatening toward the pitcher/player s/he is facing at the time.

There is no NFHS training in my area. They all come from baseball or ASA.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

"hard sell"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZIzeXcNVv...ob%20van%20dam

[CelticNHBlue]

I grew up in ASA but have emersed myself in the NCAA signals for the past few seasons. I typically use my NCAA 'hammer' for everything unless my tournament UIC specifically requests that we use the ASA signals. We do not have any formal HS training here, mostly ASA umpires applying the NFCA rules, so I can't speak to their signals/mechanics.

My opinion, ASA developed signals and mechanics that are simple and can be broken down into steps as trained in their schools and clinics because they have to be able to teach anybody how to look like an umpire. The NCAA, at the national level, umpires being evaluated for post-season and D-I assignments, requires a more 'professional' signal. I like the look of the NCAA 'hammer' and I think it looks stronger than the ASA signal, but I agree with Mike that some people can be too aggressive with it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CelticNHBlue

I grew up in ASA but have emersed myself in the NCAA signals for the past few seasons. I typically use my NCAA 'hammer' for everything unless my tournament UIC specifically requests that we use the ASA signals. We do not have any formal HS training here, mostly ASA umpires applying the NFCA rules, so I can't speak to their signals/mechanics.

My opinion, ASA developed signals and mechanics that are simple and can be broken down into steps as trained in their schools and clinics because they have to be able to teach anybody how to look like an umpire. The NCAA, at the national level, umpires being evaluated for post-season and D-I assignments, requires a more 'professional' signal. I like the look of the NCAA 'hammer' and I think it looks stronger than the ASA signal, but I agree with Mike that some people can be too aggressive with it.

Other than the aggressiveness, I don't like it because it's partially hidden from the players and spectators. Remember, the signals are not there for an "umpire showcase" or the participants in the immediate vicinity. The signals are communication tools and bringing the arm forward in front of the body screens many in the stands and is not always easy for the outfielders to observe.

As far as the "professional" comment, I don't buy it. Just because the highest level of paid umpires use a specific signal doesn't make their mechanics any more professional than that of the rookie umpire doing youth ball. For that matter, MLB umpires are some of the least professional looking/acting umpires I've observed the last few years.

JMHO

[argodad]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

Do any of you that call all three(ASA, NFHS and NCAA) use what version of the hammer works for you and stay with it no matter what?

In the Pensacola area, we do more training in NFHS than in college and ASA combined. Florida HS requires us to hold both training sessions and field clinics.

Personally, my hammer mechanic only varies slightly when I'm calling NCAA -- a bit more in front. I agree with Mike that it should be seen by anyone who is interested. But since I'm 6'4", that usually isn't a problem.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Larry,

You're going to have to roll over to Eglin in Sept to see the Armed Forces Championships.

[argodad]

That sounds like a good idea. On my first ship I had a radioman who made the All-Navy team. That kid was the best outfilelder I ever played with.

[IRISHMAFIA]

It's a strange schedule this year. They're bringing us in on the day of the 9/16 (Sat) and playing Sunday through Tuesday with Wednesday as a rain date.

I would just suggest you bring your own shade.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Why would you not use and overhand for a "hard sell"?

We were discussing hammers, not signals in general, or voice use.

However, I just have never developed or practiced a full overhand hard-sell, but I do use a semi-overhand occasionally (semi = arm, but no steps).

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Personally, I don't care for the NCAA strike/out hammer as it brings the arm too far out front. Some umpires actually make it look threatening toward the pitcher/player s/he is facing at the time.

If they want to throw an uppercut, they should take up boxing.