Infield Fly Rule

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by baldgriff

The individual level of ablility for each player is different. Some SS may have great range and be able to make a play in short OF without any difficulty where as a 14 year old girl could be camped under the ball and still not catch it with ease.

Last night I had the 2 worst teams in the league play each other. There were 2 potential IFF that I did not call because I knew the ability of the players involved - literally more than 4 steps to catch it was more than ordinary effort (Neither were caught by the way). The one I did call the girl was camped under it and did catch it.

What is ordinary effort is different by player and should be called as such.

This is where I disagree. I think you take into account the level as a whole, but not idividual players.

Let's say you have your worst shortstop in the league again and they are playing the team with the best shortstop. Pop up and the best SS ranges over about 7 steps for the easy grab and you call infield fly, no problem. Now two innings later, same pop-up but worst SS this time, it's an easy pop-up, but you know she is the worst in the league and isn't going to catch it so you no call it. Now coach comes out and asks why it's an infield fly for them and not for us. You are honestly going to say to him they get the infield fly because they are better?

[baldgriff]

Originally Posted by gsf23

This is where I disagree. I think you take into account the level as a whole, but not idividual players.

Let's say you have your worst shortstop in the league again and they are playing the team with the best shortstop. Pop up and the best SS ranges over about 7 steps for the easy grab and you call infield fly, no problem. Now two innings later, same pop-up but worst SS this time, it's an easy pop-up, but you know she is the worst in the league and isn't going to catch it so you no call it. Now coach comes out and asks why it's an infield fly for them and not for us. You are honestly going to say to him they get the infield fly because they are better?

Yes I am. The rule states that the player has to be able to make the play with ordinary effort - not the SS for the other team. It doesnt say call it because the other teams SS can make the play. It state, that the ball must be caught with resonable effort. If the worst SS cant range 7 steps and catch it then I am not giving it to her.

Keep in mind here, the sitch I am using is somewhat tainted because I know the ability of the players becuase I have seen each of them play all summer long. I know what their resonable effort is and truthfully, some of them will not attempt to range more than a couple steps.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by baldgriff

Yes I am. The rule states that the player has to be able to make the play with ordinary effort - not the SS for the other team. It doesnt say call it because the other teams SS can make the play. It state, that the ball must be caught with resonable effort. If the worst SS cant range 7 steps and catch it then I am not giving it to her.

Keep in mind here, the sitch I am using is somewhat tainted because I know the ability of the players becuase I have seen each of them play all summer long. I know what their resonable effort is and truthfully, some of them will not attempt to range more than a couple steps.

What do you mean by "giving it to her"? Calling IFR benefits the offense, not the defense. Even if the defense gets a "cheap out" from IFR on a ball not caught, they probably would get a runner out anyway. At least that's the purpose and expectation of the rule.

[baldgriff]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

What do you mean by "giving it to her"? Calling IFR benefits the offense, not the defense. Even if the defense gets a "cheap out" from IFR on a ball not caught, they probably would get a runner out anyway. At least that's the purpose and expectation of the rule.

I am not going to give her credit for the abitility to make a catch that I KNOW she cant make. Again and please understand this clearly, I have watched these teams all season long. The cases I am talking about today are players that if the ball is hit more than 3 steps away, they are not going to try for it.

If I am doing a tournament and dont know the players I am absolutely going to have to make a judgement call on it. On the ones I am talking about, it wasnt judgement as much as just knowing that there was no possible way that the player was going to catch the ball with reasonable effort.

[Dakota]

Obviously, you need to call time more to speed things up.

[Mountaineer]

OK, I call IFR based on the average player in that level. If it's a popup right behind 2nd - that's obviously an easier for a HS player than a 10yo. There's no way you can call it based upon the ability of individual players. (At least IMHO.)

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Obviously, you need to call time more to speed things up.

Can't call time . . . I'm too busy waiting for the pitcher to try to pick off the runner.

[scottk_61]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Obviously, you need to call time more to speed things up.

Uh oh, now you've gone and done it

[BoomerSooner]

The rule also does not say anything about ordinary effort from the fielder making the play, but rather could be caught with ordinary effort. I doesn't say "could be caught with ordinary effort by the closest player" or anything to that effect. That's where the umpire's judgement to what is ordinary effort comes into play, and my general rule is that it must be ordinary effort for an average player of that skill level.

I don't think its fair to judge ordinary effort by the best or the worst player on either team or even in the league. Ordinary effort for Derek Jeter is just about anything within a mile of his position, but for Travis Hafner's level of mobility (there is a reason he is a full time DH) we are looking at 2 feet. So you can't apply D. Jeter's ordinary effort to Hafner or the other way around. To maintain uniformity just go with the average players ability and you'll have it good judge of ordinary effort. That's all I have to say about that.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by baldgriff

I am not going to give her credit for the abitility to make a catch that I KNOW she cant make. Again and please understand this clearly, I have watched these teams all season long. The cases I am talking about today are players that if the ball is hit more than 3 steps away, they are not going to try for it.

If I am doing a tournament and dont know the players I am absolutely going to have to make a judgement call on it. On the ones I am talking about, it wasnt judgement as much as just knowing that there was no possible way that the player was going to catch the ball with reasonable effort.

The rule also say could be and not will be.
Not debating the general concept of adjusting for ability, just not adjusting for laziness or brain-freezes.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

The rule also say could be and not will be.
Not debating the general concept of adjusting for ability, just not adjusting for laziness or brain-freezes.

I don't think it is relevant as either requires the umpire to assess the situation and apply his/her judgment.

[Dakota]

You need to take into account individual player POSITION, but you'll drive yourself crazy with overthinking (IMO) if you go beyond that to individual player skill. I agree with gsf23 - you can (and should) adjust your judgment of "ordinary effort" to the level of play, but not to the individual player.

[mcrowder]

Also consider that at lower levels of fielder ability you also have lower levels of runner ability. The intent is to protect the offense from an easy DP - if the fielders are worse, it's likely that the runners are worse too.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Don't our manuals tell us to judge a ball at its apex; and look for someone camped under it (or capable of camping under it)? While I can see both sides of this discussion, it still comes down to judging if the ball can be caught. A defense unable to catch that ball is equally likely to be unable to turn the DP. Let's not reward an inept defense in the name of "protecting" the offense.