Cat

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NDblue

You're right and I, as a registered ASA umpire deem that rubber-band thingy is a hazard and wouldn't let her wear it so she either takes it off or doesn't play.

Okay. Not saying that you are wrong. For that matter, as an ASA umpire, the rule book gives you the authority to do exactly what you state. However, can you tell me what you consider dangerous about a rubber band on a player's wrist?

[Woodchuck]

By ASA standards this would be illegal. It is hard to tell from one still picture, but by the picture of Cat she is legal by NCAA rules, I don't know about ISF. Maybe someone can provide that rule for us. Here is the NCAA Rule:

2006 NCAA SOFTBALL Rules and Interpretations,
RULE 10 PITCHING,
page 115,
Step/Stride,
SECTION 4.d. Having pushed off from the pitcher's plate, the rear, pivot foot must stay in contact with the ground without creating a second push-off point before the stride foot lands.

4.d.1. No leaping is allowed. The pitcher may not become airborne on the initial drive from the pitcher's plate. The rear foot must slide/drag on the ground.

(page 116) 4.d.2. No crow hopping is allowed. The pitcher may not replant, gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher's plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.

I don't do college ball but had a friend send me the rule. Both NFHS & PONY have the same take on the rule. The pivot foot is released from maintaining contact with the ground once the non-pivot foot touches the ground on the step forward with release of the ball.

Just my humble opinon, please correct if I'm wrong.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Woodchuck

By ASA standards this would be illegal. It is hard to tell from one still picture, but by the picture of Cat she is legal by NCAA rules, I don't know about ISF. Maybe someone can provide that rule for us. Here is the NCAA Rule:

2006 NCAA SOFTBALL Rules and Interpretations,
RULE 10 PITCHING,
page 115,
Step/Stride,
SECTION 4.d. Having pushed off from the pitcher's plate, the rear, pivot foot must stay in contact with the ground without creating a second push-off point before the stride foot lands.

4.d.1. No leaping is allowed. The pitcher may not become airborne on the initial drive from the pitcher's plate. The rear foot must slide/drag on the ground.

(page 116) 4.d.2. No crow hopping is allowed. The pitcher may not replant, gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher's plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.

I don't do college ball but had a friend send me the rule. Both NFHS & PONY have the same take on the rule. The pivot foot is released from maintaining contact with the ground once the non-pivot foot touches the ground on the step forward with release of the ball.

Just my humble opinon, please correct if I'm wrong.

Not saying that you are wrong, but would love to know what in the rules you cited lead you to believe that the pivot foot was permitted to become airborne.

[CecilOne]

''The pitcher may not become airborne on the initial drive from the pitcher's plate" indicates that after the stride there is no leap possible because a leap is both feet off the ground at the same time.

[Woodchuck]

Mike - I placed in bold print where the idea comes from. Its one of those gray areas that are in the rules. I wished all rules stated "the pivot foot must remain in contact with the ground until the pitch is released", if they said that we umpires would have no problem calling illegal pitches.

2006 NCAA SOFTBALL Rules and Interpretations,
RULE 10 PITCHING,
page 115,
Step/Stride,

SECTION 4.d. Having pushed off from the pitcher's plate, the rear, pivot foot must stay in contact with the ground without creating a second push-off point before the stride foot lands.
4.d.1. No leaping is allowed. The pitcher may not become airborne on the initial drive from the pitcher's plate. The rear foot must slide/drag on the ground.

(page 116) 4.d.2. No crow hopping is allowed. The pitcher may not replant, gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher's plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Woodchuck

I wished all rules stated "the pivot foot must remain in contact with the ground until the pitch is released

SECTION 4.d. ... pivot foot must stay in contact with the ground
[/QUOTE]

Uh ... what? You wish the rule stated that the pivot foot must remain in contact with the ground, and then you quote where it says EXACTLY THAT, almost word for word.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

SECTION 4.d. ... pivot foot must stay in contact with the ground


Uh ... what? You wish the rule stated that the pivot foot must remain in contact with the ground, and then you quote where it says EXACTLY THAT, almost word for word.

Come on Mike, the rest of the sentence is "without creating a second push-off point before the stride foot lands", not "until the pitch is released" as Tony suggested.

The other part of the rule says "may not bear weight again until the pitch is released", for example.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Come on Mike, the rest of the sentence is "without creating a second push-off point before the stride foot lands", not "until the pitch is released" as Tony suggested.

The other part of the rule says "may not bear weight again until the pitch is released", for example.

Yeah ... but the "without creating a second push-off point" is an ADDITIONAL requirement to keeping the foot on the ground, not an exception that allows the foot to come off the ground as long as it doesn't create a second push-off point. The rule very clearly states that the foot must stay in contact with the ground AND that the pitcher can't create a second push-off point.

If the intent of the rulesmakers was to allow the foot to come off the ground as long as it doesn't create a second push-off point, the rule would not even mention coming off the ground. It would just say "Having pushed off from the pitcher's plate, the rear, pivot foot must not create a second push-off point before the stride foot lands."

You are adding an OR into the statement where none exists.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Woodchuck

Mike - I placed in bold print where the idea comes from. Its one of those gray areas that are in the rules. I wished all rules stated "the pivot foot must remain in contact with the ground until the pitch is released", if they said that we umpires would have no problem calling illegal pitches.

2006 NCAA SOFTBALL Rules and Interpretations,
RULE 10 PITCHING,
page 115,
Step/Stride,

SECTION 4.d. Having pushed off from the pitcher's plate, the rear, pivot foot must stay in contact with the ground without creating a second push-off point before the stride foot lands.
4.d.1. No leaping is allowed. The pitcher may not become airborne on the initial drive from the pitcher's plate. The rear foot must slide/drag on the ground.

(page 116) 4.d.2. No crow hopping is allowed. The pitcher may not replant, gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher's plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.

Okay, I understand what you are reading, but I read those as stating that the foot may lose contact with the PP and drag (trail) on the ground.

I don't read anything which indicates the pitcher may allow the pivot foot to become airborne.

Not trying to start an argument, just pointing out that we are reading the same words yet coming to a different conclusion.

[NDblue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Okay. Not saying that you are wrong. For that matter, as an ASA umpire, the rule book gives you the authority to do exactly what you state. However, can you tell me what you consider dangerous about a rubber band on a player's wrist?

Have you ever tried to break one of those rubber-band thingies? They're pretty strong and I feel if a runner and a fielder got tangled up and all the stars and planets were aligned and a finger got caught in that R-BT, a finger could be very sprained or even broken before that R-BT broke. It's not just me that feels this way either, our local umpire association has put out the word that we're not supposed to allow these things to be worn. We don't allow ANY jewelry. We do allow medi-alert bracelets and necklaces but they need to be taped down.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by NDblue

Have you ever tried to break one of those rubber-band thingies? They're pretty strong and I feel if a runner and a fielder got tangled up and all the stars and planets were aligned and a finger got caught in that R-BT, a finger could be very sprained or even broken before that R-BT broke. It's not just me that feels this way either, our local umpire association has put out the word that we're not supposed to allow these things to be worn. We don't allow ANY jewelry. We do allow medi-alert bracelets and necklaces but they need to be taped down.

Sounds like a very third-world play, if you ask me. Seems to me the same thing could happen with the runner's finger and the elastic on the wrist of the fielder's batting glove that she wears under her glove...

[NDblue]

Originally Posted by SRW

Sounds like a very third-world play, if you ask me. Seems to me the same thing could happen with the runner's finger and the elastic on the wrist of the fielder's batting glove that she wears under her glove...

It may be a "very third-world play" but I've seen stranger things happen from behind the plate and as a player. I don't see a finger getting caught in the wristband of a batting glove if the batting glove is worn properly, i.e. snug to the wrist.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by NDblue

It may be a "very third-world play" but I've seen stranger things happen from behind the plate and as a player. I don't see a finger getting caught in the wristband of a batting glove if the batting glove is worn properly, i.e. snug to the wrist.

So...here's a play I had last year.

Runner goes sliding into second base. Throw is a little low, 2B goes way down to get it, lotsa diving and stuff going on. I see the velcro on the back of the runner's batting glove slice open a nice little chunk just above the 2B's eye. Her eye to this day looks as if she ran into barbed wire or something.

The batting glove certainly appeared to be worn properly, i.e. snug to the wrist. It was fastened - I know because she called time out at first base to refasten it on the pitch before this play.

If this play had happened in, say, North Dakota, would we have banned this girl for life? Taken her behind the woodshed?

Stuff happens. IMHO we don't need to be telling folks who are playing world championship level fast pitch that they can't wear a Livestrong bracelet.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NDblue

It may be a "very third-world play" but I've seen stranger things happen from behind the plate and as a player. I don't see a finger getting caught in the wristband of a batting glove if the batting glove is worn properly, i.e. snug to the wrist.

What about a face mask? A regular glove. Stirrup socks. Shoe strings. Belt loop. A base strap.

Something could get hung-up on a player's pony tail, so should we make them tuck their hair up under their hat (and went in to ask him why?, "You look like a fine young man, I think you'll do"; So I took off my hat and said, "Imagine that, ME working for you; Whoa oh oh oh, signs, signs, everywhere are signs....oops, sorry for the flashback to the Five Man Electrical Band).

Point is, I just think the "jewelry" thing has gone way over to the tree-hugging extreme. It is not my job to protect people from themselves, I have a hard enough time protecting myself and my family.

[CecilOne]

A) the jewelry discussion is a hijack
B) an ignored factor in the hijack is whether the item is adornment or functional
C) I will respond to mcrowder tomorrow, in the original track of this topic