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Old Wed May 03, 2006, 11:08am
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Am I A Softie ?

In my game yesterday i had a young lady swear at me. I called a strike three, looking, on her. She turns and looks at me and Says" Are you F%$#@&* blind?. Now before we get into the end of Western civilization and all that I would like to focus on what I did and if what i did was appropriate, in accordance with the rule book.

I chuckled and walked over to her coach and explained what transpired. I said i didn't think an ejection was warranted but I was going to restrict her to the dugout for the rest of the game. The coach agreed and said she was a bit of an attitude problem lately. My partner thought I should have ejected her. i thought because it wasn't said loudly and only me,her, and F2 heard it I could live with the restriction. having done that was that allowable according to the rules and my belief this was a minor offense,IMO.

Actually i am not a softie but it just didn't seem like she should be ejected.......
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Old Wed May 03, 2006, 11:12am
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Good job. Just you and her.
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Old Wed May 03, 2006, 11:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chess Ref
She turns and looks at me and Says" Are you F%$#@&* blind?
It makes not a difference to me if it was loud our soft. It was directed at me. If the coach has a problem then you explain it. What is F2 telling the rest of the team back at the bench? Yeah that batter just swore at the ump and nothing happened.

Later on you have a Something else happen but louder and do a toss.. Everyone knows you didnt toss before so now who is being treated fairly or not?

Sorry, but if you put an F bomb on the ump you are walking. Done. End of story. Game Over.
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Old Wed May 03, 2006, 11:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodan55
Good job. Just you and her.
It wasnt just the two of them. F2 is there also.
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Old Wed May 03, 2006, 11:17am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baldgriff
It makes not a difference to me if it was loud our soft. It was directed at me. If the coach has a problem then you explain it. What is F2 telling the rest of the team back at the bench? Yeah that batter just swore at the ump and nothing happened.

Later on you have a Something else happen but louder and do a toss.. Everyone knows you didnt toss before so now who is being treated fairly or not?

Sorry, but if you put an F bomb on the ump you are walking. Done. End of story. Game Over.
Something did happen. She was restricted to the bench for the remainder of the game, in other words, not allowed to participate. Seems fair to me, if that was the way this particular umpire wanted to handle it.
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Old Wed May 03, 2006, 11:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chess Ref
...having done that was that allowable according to the rules and my belief this was a minor offense,IMO.

Actually i am not a softie but it just didn't seem like she should be ejected.......
If the rules you are following allow a restriction to the dugout for this offense, you followed the rules. Its your call, and your call alone. Despite what your partner or the coach thought, you made the call in accordance to the rules, and can live with it. Thumbs up in my book...no questions needed!

If the rules state that this action is cause for ejection however, restricting her to the dugout is not an available option, no matter how you may personally feel. There are lots of rules in the book that I don't agree with, but we must enforce them all evenly and equally! That's the job of an umpire!
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Old Wed May 03, 2006, 11:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chess Ref
I would like to focus on what I did and if what i did was appropriate, in accordance with the rule book.
Fed rules?

If no, then ASA (for example) provides no such option as restrict to the bench.

If yes, then the rule(s) you presumably applied were 3-6-13-b (profanity) and/or 3-6-15 (arguing balls and strikes).

The penalty sections allows for umpire judgment that a violation was minor. If judged minor, the penalty is a team warning and ejection if repeated. If not minor, the penalty is ejection. Restriction to the bench is only available as an option under these rules if it is the coach who violates.

So, no, you were not according to the rules.

And, personally, I would not consider swearing directly at the umpire to be a minor violation. Swearing at oneself out of frustration would be a minor violation. Good-natured swearing is no violation at all at the high school age - unless it is loud. (If you don't understand what I mean, I can give an example.)
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Old Wed May 03, 2006, 11:44am
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High School Rules

I am looking at the penalty portion on Rule 3-6 (Arts. 11-16). It seems to say only coaches can be restricted and players may be warned and then ejected. So I am confused and maybe i should have ejected her. .

then under rule 2 Section 48 it implies that restriction is generally a result of an infraction of a playing rule. Not an unsporting act.

So now i am thinking i should have ejected her from the game, according to the rulebook.

Last edited by Chess Ref; Wed May 03, 2006 at 11:48am.
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Old Wed May 03, 2006, 11:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chess Ref
So now i am thinking i should have ejected her from the game, according to the rulebook.
Agreed....
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Old Wed May 03, 2006, 12:00pm
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"Are you F%$#@&* blind?"

No ejection?

Are you F%$#@&* kidding?

If that doesn't do it, what WOULD it take for you to eject someone?
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Old Wed May 03, 2006, 12:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Fed rules?

If no, then ASA (for example) provides no such option as restrict to the bench.

If yes, then the rule(s) you presumably applied were 3-6-13-b (profanity) and/or 3-6-15 (arguing balls and strikes).

The penalty sections allows for umpire judgment that a violation was minor. If judged minor, the penalty is a team warning and ejection if repeated. If not minor, the penalty is ejection. Restriction to the bench is only available as an option under these rules if it is the coach who violates.

So, no, you were not according to the rules.

And, personally, I would not consider swearing directly at the umpire to be a minor violation. Swearing at oneself out of frustration would be a minor violation. Good-natured swearing is no violation at all at the high school age - unless it is loud. (If you don't understand what I mean, I can give an example.)
Good example of 'good natured' swearing I had last week-

JV game...P is warming up and bounces the fifth one to the C...a little,but audible s*** comes out... she looks mortified seeing i saw it...I look at her, smile, and say, " Talking about mushrooms I hope!". her fielders go, "Oh yes..****take"! We all laugh and its over.


and yes, you should have ejected the 'f-you' girl
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Old Wed May 03, 2006, 12:31pm
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Another example. I'm BU. Ball hit into left field (grounder). Ball goes under F7's glove and she has to chase it down. Runner now on 2B, and as I am moving to position, F8 says to F7, "Nice play." F7 replies, "F--- you."

Not loud; just betwen the two players - good natured ribbing. No violation, in my book.
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Old Wed May 03, 2006, 01:43pm
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Matbe it's just me but isn't "restricting a player to the bench" the same thing as ejecting her from the game? The player is not allowed to participate in the game any more. The only difference is that the player does not have to leave the dugout (for liability reasons). Isn't it still considered an "ejection"?
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Old Wed May 03, 2006, 01:59pm
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An ejected player in NFHS is expected to stay on the bench, after all you can't have little girls wondering around without adult supervision. The main difference here is with an ejection the player is also suspended for the next game. With this restriction there is no record therefore no additional suspension.

F-bombs buy you the pine modified seat (a spanking) where I grew up.

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Old Wed May 03, 2006, 01:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSABlue
Matbe it's just me but isn't "restricting a player to the bench" the same thing as ejecting her from the game? The player is not allowed to participate in the game any more. The only difference is that the player does not have to leave the dugout (for liability reasons). Isn't it still considered an "ejection"?
Speaking NFHS, no. It is a less severe penalty. Typically, the state will impose additional penalties on an ejection (suspension for the following game, for example), that do not apply to a restriction to the bench. Ejections require, again typically, the filing of an "incident report" or some such paperwork with the state. Restrictions to the bench may not.
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