The Play

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Here is a better one.

R1 on 1B.
Ground ball to F6 who "forces" R1 out, and then throws to F3 to get B-R out at 1B.

The offense appeals that R1 was not tagged out.

What do you rule?

I don't understand, since to me this reads like a simple 6-3 double play. What am I missing?

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I don't understand, since to me this reads like a simple 6-3 double play. What am I missing?

If the B-R being put out on the play removes all force plays, then R1 needed to be tagged for the out to stand. Otherwise it is a mis-applicaition of POE#1.

I am sure most will think I am being silly, but if the force is removed after the fact, then why wouldn't an appeal overturn the "force" out if the runner wasn't tagged.

[mcrowder]

I can't even guess where TCan is going with this. When R1 was put out, it was a force. BR being put out erases any forces, as stated above, but does not cause all previously completed forceouts to revert. That way lies anarchy!

The statement earlier that "the rule stating that putting out BR removes all forces can only refer to BR being put out prior to reaching 1B" is faulty. In fact, an extremely normal play can illustrate this. R1 on first, fly ball to shallow F9. R1 is a few steps off first, when BR passes R1. BR is out (and beyond 1B). F9 fails to catch the ball.

Is R1 still forced to 2nd? Of course not.

[tcannizzo]

I used to think I knew something about softball.
Guess I picked a bad day to quit drinking.

[greymule]

R1 on 2B. R2 on 1B. BR hits to shallow RF. All runners off, but R1 stumbles and falls (no OBS) before reaching 3B. R2 stops after rounding 2B waiting for R1 to get going again. BR rounds 1B and is heading to 2B when F4 takes the cutoff and tags BR. F4 throws to F5 at third who tags the base just before R1 finally touches 3B.

Is R1 out?

I've actually seen this type of situation called a force out. In a HS game, R1 on 1B, BR got an extra-base hit, and with his speed had actually passed 3B before R1 reached home. So because there were two runners between 3B and home, the ump rules that R1 had become "forced" at home and could be put out with a mere tag of the plate.