What Should I Have Done Here?

[WooPigSooie]

I'm behind the plate for a 12U fastpitch game last night. Batters boxes and catchers box are properly marked. The home pitcher throws some heat, so, the visiting batters have been setting up in the very back of the box. The catcher for the home team has been EXTREMELY close to the swinging batters all night long, but still legally within the confines of her given box. I had came close to telling her to backup several times, but kept thinking to myself that since she was legally inside her marked space, I'll keep my mouth closed. Hadnt called any catchers interferences all night, then BAM, it happens. The cleanup girl for the visitors, who is a hoss for a 12 yr. old, takes a big, long cut and strikes the catcher between the wrist and elbow on the front swing. Breaks the bone. As you would expect from a 12 yr. old, she is rolling on the ground, screaming in pain.

I have been beating myself up over this since last night. I know if the player is legally positioned, I should keep my mouth closed, but when do you have to let common sense kick in and think about the safety of the player? I knew in the back of my mind that it would happen, but I was hoping it would be your normal catchers interference by hitting the glove.

Would you, or have you, told the catcher to back up in a situation like this, especially at this age or any age for that matter?

[noobie]

I'll do it without hesitiation. I'll say something the first time like "uhh, you're just a little close to that hitter. You might wanna back up an inch or two", and the second time, "I've seen too many catchers hurt by a bat head moving at 100 MPH ... please be careful". I've never warned the same F2 a third time, though. Once, a catcher made me really nervous after two warnings ... during the next mid-inning offense/defense change, I walked over to the manager, pulled him aside and told him I thought F2 was setting up dangerously close to certain hitters. It's really his job to coach his players, anyway.

I have a duty to enforce safe conditions on the field, and those things are always judgment calls. If I hadn't said anything, I'd feel awful. If I'd said something, and the catcher were still injured by later ignoring my advice (and I'm careful to state it as advice, not a warning), I'll feel only slightly less awful. But at least I said my peace: I can't get on myself for failure to do my duty. It's funny: I've had no catchers bark back at me, and no coach has ever pulled me aside to gripe at me over it. I think everybody understands my motive.

You asked when you ought to let common sense kick in. I'd say 100% of the time. Sure, I want to work a good game -- exactly by the rule book -- all the time; no coaching, be as professional as I know how to be. But my role in ensuring that play is as safe as possible takes precedence. When somebody does get hurt, it takes a lot off of the fact that I might have called a good game. I hate it when that happens. No matter how we might try to make conditions as safe as possible, players get hurt sometimes: bats, balls, and players moving at high speed aren't always kind to flesh and bone.

I feel for you. I guess this is how you learn when it's worth it to open your trap and pass some friendly advice on to F2. I'd bet some of the more senior folks here will probably tell you the same. Or not

But don't beat yourself up over it. I've observed that most catchers will take the advice -- for a pitch or two -- and then set up right back where they were. Should I keep on reminding them? I'll never do it more than twice. After that, I'll discreetly let the manager know what I think; and then it's done: I've got a ball game to call -- all I can do is hope and pray that the very sad lesson being risked won't be learned on my field.

[AtlUmpSteve]

As you noted, she was dangerously close, but legally in position, and there is a fine line between umpiring and coaching. In your situation, I would have had a quick conversation with her coach, "Coach, I don't want to be coaching your players, and I certainly understand the advantages of your catcher being as close as possible. I just want to tell you that she is dangerously close, in my judgment, to being hit with a bat, and I'm sure you realize that can risk some serious injury, not just a free base to a batter."

If he moves her back, I would feel free to say something if she eases back up. If he chooses to leave her there, then he accepts the risk to her, not me.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Remember, the catcher's box begins where the batter's box ends. Therefore, just keeping one's feet in the CB doesn't necessarily make one "legal". Obviously, this catcher was way up and close considering the location of the wound.

If you are uncomfortable with the positioning, back her off. If her coach says anything, note that, in your judgment, being up that close puts her in the batter's line of vision when tracking the ball.

You'll probably get a strange look from the coach, but you should be able to sell it with little trouble.

[NSABlue]

When I've had this situation before I start with a word to the coach between innings. I really don't want to see anyone hurt.
If the catcher continues to "creep" forward, that's when I would find in necessary to clean the plate. I'd look her in the eye and take that opportunity to remind her (For her safety) to move back a little. Just a friendly reminder.

David

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

As you noted, she was dangerously close, but legally in position, and there is a fine line between umpiring and coaching. In your situation, I would have had a quick conversation with her coach, "Coach, I don't want to be coaching your players, and I certainly understand the advantages of your catcher being as close as possible. I just want to tell you that she is dangerously close, in my judgment, to being hit with a bat, and I'm sure you realize that can risk some serious injury, not just a free base to a batter."

If he moves her back, I would feel free to say something if she eases back up. If he chooses to leave her there, then he accepts the risk to her, not me.

I'm in agreement with letting the defensive coach know his catcher may be at risk. I've done this by calling time and while walking over to the DC taken my lineup card out and expained I didn't have a line-up question, but s/he might want to take a peak at the catcher who is too close to the batter.

[mcrowder]

I think Steve's advice is perfect. I'd much prefer addressing this with the coach than with the player. Plus players can be known to misunderstand an umpire's direction, and if she did, and something happened, it's your fault. If she misunderstand her coach, his her fault. A simple instruction like "you might be too far up, catcher" can be misconstrued as telling her she needs to move her glove DOWN (instead of her body BACK). "You're awfully close to the batter - careful there," could make the catcher move OUT instead of back, and cause WP's, PB's, walks due to a bad target, etc.

Let the coach address it.

[baldgriff]

I dont do FP, but do a lot of youth SP. This is something that I have to address more than once in a season. I will tell the coach what I am seeing and then let them deal with it.

The big thing here is this - Dont beat yourself up over this. If you do, every catcher is going to appear to close. This is not your fault! This is what a coach is for. The coach should be watching to see where their player is setting up.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000

I'm in agreement with letting the defensive coach know his catcher may be at risk. I've done this by calling time and while walking over to the DC taken my lineup card out and expained I didn't have a line-up question, but s/he might want to take a peak at the catcher who is too close to the batter.

If it's safety and preventive, not coaching, no need to hide it. If it's coaching and not preventive, don't do it.

[mcrowder]

Even if it's safety and preventative, you're better off letting the coach deal with it. If you do coach the player directly, at least tell the coach that you've done so. YOU know what you mean when you tell a player to do something. But the player may not.

Take this to OBS. F4 obstructs on 3 consecutive plays, standing on the bag when the ball isn't coming. You say, "Hey second base - you can't stand on the bag without the ball. You're going to get hurt, or hurt someone else who's trying to run through here to third." Next play is a grounder to F6. F4 rushes over and stands OFF the bag, receives the throw as the runner from 1st comes in safe. Coach: "Billy, why were you off the base?!?!" Billy: "He told me I couldn't stand on the base!"

You can never go wrong letting the coach handle his players.

[BuggBob]

I'm very sorry that the girl got hurt, but it is not and can not be our job to coach players. If the catcher is too close, it must be up to the coach to move her -- not umpires. If the catcher is too far back or blocking our view making our job of calling balls and strikes difficult, it is the coach that should move her to help us get a better view. After you call a few pitches ball because you can't see them, most coaches will move their catchers so that you can see. But we should never tell a catcher to move -- even for her own safety.

Now before you break out the tar and feathers let me explain. I talked with several Baseball and Softball coaches, and they all agreed that it must be their job to move the catcher. While the umpires concern for their players safety was nice all the coaches said it clearly was not umpires job to move catcher or even ask for them to be moved. All of the coaches from my poll said they would not take kindly to the umpire asking for them to move the catcher and would be even more upset it the umpire moved the catch on their own. It was the universal opinon that they and they alone are responsible for the positioning of their players. They also agreed that umpires who coach their players make the coaches job even more difficult.

If we don't move the catcher and she gets hurt, we are not responsible (everybody has already agreed to that) but what would happen if we did moved a catcher and she still got hurt, now who would be responsible?

Bugg

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

As you noted, she was dangerously close, but legally in position, and there is a fine line between umpiring and coaching. In your situation, I would have had a quick conversation with her coach, "Coach, I don't want to be coaching your players, and I certainly understand the advantages of your catcher being as close as possible. I just want to tell you that she is dangerously close, in my judgment, to being hit with a bat, and I'm sure you realize that can risk some serious injury, not just a free base to a batter."

If he moves her back, I would feel free to say something if she eases back up. If he chooses to leave her there, then he accepts the risk to her, not me.

Steve's correct. I guess I'm too use to dealing with adult players more than kids.

[umpharp]

first, don't beat yourself up about the girl getting injured. injuries happen in softball and this wasn't your fault. We live and learn as umpires.
In 12U, I would tell the catcher to move back a little or tell her that she's a little close. In a lot of cases, 12U catchers are setting up where the coach has told them to. Most 12U catchers are not changing where they set up from batter to batter.
If this was adult ball or even 16U or 18U, I would keep my mouth shut. The skill level is higher and a catcher should know at that level if he/she is too close.

[Skahtboi]

And just for clarification, there is no such animal as "catcher's interference." It is catcher's obstruction in softball.

[LIIRISHMAN]

As a umpire I would talk to both the coach and player regarding her positioning. As a parent of a 12 yr old I would thank you for showing concern about my child's safety. After all it's just a game and at 12 and under it should be about having fun.