Courtesy Runner for the FLEX

[Big_Mike]

Dave Emerling wrote a great series of articles a few months back about all the tricks/strategies that a crafty coach could try with the DP/FLEX. One of the points of interest was: Is a coach able to bring the FLEX in to run for a DP and then IMMEDIATELY bring in the courtesy runner for the FLEX (since the FLEX is the P)? Or... would he/she have to leave the FLEX in the game for one pitch under the substitution rule 4:6-B-2? The question really boils down to "is bringing the FLEX in for the DP considered a substitution"? If yes, then the "one pitch" rule would apply. If no, then a CR could be used for the FLEX immediately since the FLEX is in fact the P. 4:6-B-2 specifically mentions that a "substitute is not considered in the game...." In this example, wouldn't the FLEX be considered "in the game" seeing as how she is the current P? It's confusing, but it's a legitimate question.

Any comments or clarifications would be appreciated!

[Dakota]

He cannot do either one. For the CR to be used for F1, F1 must earn her own way on base.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by Dakota

For the CR to be used for F1, F1 must earn her own way on base.

What rule is that?

My understanding of NFHS is that if the Flex is F1 or F2 and enters into offense for the DP, the DP is considered to have left the game and at that point my understanding is that a CR would be allowed for the player who last occupied the position of F1 or F2 (or if in the top of the first inning was listed in the line-up as such.)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big_Mike

Dave Emerling wrote a great series of articles a few months back about all the tricks/strategies that a crafty coach could try with the DP/FLEX. One of the points of interest was: Is a coach able to bring the FLEX in to run for a DP and then IMMEDIATELY bring in the courtesy runner for the FLEX (since the FLEX is the P)? Or... would he/she have to leave the FLEX in the game for one pitch under the substitution rule 4:6-B-2?

No such thing as a "one pitch" rule in ASA.

The question really boils down to "is bringing the FLEX in for the DP considered a substitution"?

Yes

If yes, then the "one pitch" rule would apply.

Again, no such rule.

If no, then a CR could be used for the FLEX immediately since the FLEX is in fact the P. 4:6-B-2 specifically mentions that a "substitute is not considered in the game...." In this example, wouldn't the FLEX be considered "in the game" seeing as how she is the current P? It's confusing, but it's a legitimate question.

Any comments or clarifications would be appreciated!

I cannot find anything in Rule 4 or 7 forbidding doing what you are saying, but it seems like a waste of a reentry.

[AtlUmpSteve]

NFHS Rule 8-9-2 states, in part, "The pitcher or catcher must bat and reach base legally (or earn their way on base) in order to be eligible for a courtesy runner." In being entered on offense strictly as a runner, the FLEX has not met this requirement, no matter who last pitched or caught.

As Mike mentions, that isn't illegal in ASA; but you will have cost your DP her re-entry rights to accomplish a courtesy runner. Maybe that makes sense to some coaches.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

NFHS Rule 8-9-2 states, in part, "The pitcher or catcher must bat and reach base legally (or earn their way on base) in order to be eligible for a courtesy runner." In being entered on offense strictly as a runner, the FLEX has not met this requirement, no matter who last pitched or caught.

As Mike mentions, that isn't illegal in ASA; but you will have cost your DP her re-entry rights to accomplish a courtesy runner. Maybe that makes sense to some coaches.

I though everyone adopted the same flex rule, or is ASA different because they were first with DEFO.

Also, my current understanding is that ITB is not "earning your way on base" even though it defeats the purpose of the rule, so I'd like to know if that's wrong.

[AtlUmpSteve]

We (Georgia) asked for a ruling from Mary Struckhoff. Her reply was that the pitcher or catcher "earned" their way just as much as any other position in the batting order, by making the last out in the previous inning, thus were entitled to a courtesy runner in ITB. She further commented, as did you, that refusing the CR in that case would be counterproductive to the intent of the CR rule, and that the "earned" requirement was to stop the ingenious efforts to circumvent the intent and limitations.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

NFHS Rule 8-9-2 states, in part, "The pitcher or catcher must bat and reach base legally (or earn their way on base) in order to be eligible for a courtesy runner." In being entered on offense strictly as a runner, the FLEX has not met this requirement, no matter who last pitched or caught.

Thanks. I missed that.

A follow-up... How could a one "earn their way on base" other than batting and reaching base legally? Perhaps being put at 2B for an international tie-breaker situation. Is there another way?

[Big_Mike]

I should have clarified that I am talking about ASA - my apologies! "Earning" their way on is an NFHS rule and I am aware of the differences.

ASA Rule 4:6-B-2 mandates that a reported substitute (in this case the FLEX for the DP) must stay in the game for one pitch, legal or not, or one play in order to be considered "in the game". At this point, it would seem as though we could allow the CR for the FLEX.

I believe the intent of the coach is to get speed on the bases with the intent or re-entering the DP. A DP would still have re-entry rights in this scenario as it is the first time she's being taken out of the game.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big_Mike

ASA Rule 4:6-B-2 mandates that a reported substitute (in this case the FLEX for the DP) must stay in the game for one pitch, legal or not, or one play in order to be considered "in the game".

There is no such rule in ASA. You are misreading 4.6.B. This reference is there solely for the purpose of defining a point in time the offense may report a substitute without penalty should the defense raise the issue.

See the umpire's page at www.asasoftball.com and check rules interpretations for the month of March.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

We (Georgia) asked for a ruling from Mary Struckhoff. Her reply was that the pitcher or catcher "earned" their way just as much as any other position in the batting order, by making the last out in the previous inning, thus were entitled to a courtesy runner in ITB. She further commented, as did you, that refusing the CR in that case would be counterproductive to the intent of the CR rule, and that the "earned" requirement was to stop the ingenious efforts to circumvent the intent and limitations.

Thanks. I'm going to assume that the NFHS interp. applies to the position, even if the pitcher/catcher was replaced defensively after "making the last out in the previous inning".