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-   -   who should call fair or foul? (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/25534-who-should-call-fair-foul.html)

Illinois blue Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:18am

in a two umpire game and no one on base, I think the base ump should call a ball hit down the rt. field line, fair or foul. Have you ever been blocked out?

Andy Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:45am

Quote:

Originally posted by Illinois blue
in a two umpire game and no one on base, I think the base ump should call a ball hit down the rt. field line, fair or foul.
I don't have a problem with this statement. I won't put an "always" or a "never" in front of it, however.

Quote:

Have you ever been blocked out?
Sure....who hasn't?

shipwreck Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:46am

In a two man with noboby on why not as BU go out to watch for fair or foul and if there is a catch or not. Dave

Little Jimmy Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:10am

Maybe my area is different than others but the foul line on 95% of all my fields isn't lined much more than 10-15 feet beyond the bag. If I go out in the A position for a fair/foul call I have nothing to judge it off of. Plate guy can at least see the line and extend it from his/her perspective.

Antonella Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:12am

First: on a batted ball to the out field first reaction of base umpire is basically expected to move toward the infield.
In Two Ump.s System this movement will be toward the circle.
In Three or Four Ump.s System this movement (not always, but most of the times) will be along the foul line, in foul territory.
PRIORITY of base umpire is batter-runner.
Plate Umpire's priority, on the other hand, is fair/foul call on the batted ball.

So my answer is: fair/foul is for PU.
BU could help (if requested), but at the moment that batted ball is 'landing'... he/she is probably checking something else...

JMO

Ciao

IRISHMAFIA Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:14am

Quote:

Originally posted by shipwreck
In a two man with noboby on why not as BU go out to watch for fair or foul and if there is a catch or not. Dave
In a perfect world, I would agree. However, not every field is properly lined. If there are no lines, I would leave the fly balls near the line to the PU.

AtlUmpSteve Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by shipwreck
In a two man with nobody on why not as BU go out to watch for fair or foul and if there is a catch or not. Dave
For consistency reasons. In many (if not most) cases, consistency needs to be the mantra for universal coverage. the plate umpire knows he has fair/foul calls ALL the time when the ball is hit to left, and every catch/no catch call when the ball is hit to left, to center, and ... sometimes when the ball is hit to right?

And, in slow pitch, with nobody on, the base umpire starts in B position, and has no angle for fair/fou calls, even if the field is properly lined.

The clearest and most simple message to get out to 60,000 ASA umpires, and unknown other umpires not registered with ASA, is that the plate umpire has all fair/foul calls, and all catch/no catch calls. Base umpire is to buttonhook and pick up baserunners. All the time, no matter what field the ball is hit to, whether fast pitch, slow pitch, or modified.

Can higher level umpires vary from that? Sure, if you communicate; but teach the KISS method.

bkbjones Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:55pm

There was an effort to do this a few years ago, with disastrous results. Too many cases of BU calling a ball fair (or foul) and the PU ruling the opposite way.

This was probably more a case of communications, and too many folks not doing a pregame...but it was a disaster.

JFA67 Thu Mar 16, 2006 02:20pm

It depends
 
Interesting discussion. In my career working HS, ASA and NCAA, the answer is it depends.

This is something to cover in your pregame. if the line isn't marked, the plate umpire has to take it to use the foul pole to judge it.

On the other hand, in three person, it is the base umpire's job in the situation you describe.
That is what I was taught at both ASA national school and the NCAA evaluation tournament I worked several years ago.

If my information is out of date, someone correct me.





booker227 Thu Mar 16, 2006 02:36pm

And if it drops inside the foul line, who's covering first? Plate umpire's responsibility because on any hit the base umpire should be moving inside the diamond to their position. The base umpire shouldn't turn their back on the infield unless they're looking for the trap.

JFA67 Thu Mar 16, 2006 02:59pm

Where is the plate umpire?
 
The plate umpire has the single runner at first in 2 person in the situation described. .
Like I mentioned in my previous post - cover this in the pregame. Some umpires prefer the base umpire in 2 person almost always (except possible trap) move inside the diamond.
3 person mechanics dictate the base umpire has that call.


IRISHMAFIA Thu Mar 16, 2006 03:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bkbjones
There was an effort to do this a few years ago, with disastrous results. Too many cases of BU calling a ball fair (or foul) and the PU ruling the opposite way.

This was probably more a case of communications, and too many folks not doing a pregame...but it was a disaster.

John,

I think you are referring to a bounding ball that reaches the base. Yes, it was a mess.

I believe the OP referred to a ball in flight near the RF line.

CecilOne Thu Mar 16, 2006 07:31pm

We're now being taught to go out from A on any ball on the foul line side of F9 ("outside the V") and leave the PU with all base calls.

AtlUmpSteve Thu Mar 16, 2006 09:58pm

Quote:

Originally posted by CecilOne
We're now being taught to go out from A on any ball on the foul line side of F9 ("outside the V") and leave the PU with all base calls.
Who is "we", and who or what organization is doing that teaching?

CecilOne Fri Mar 17, 2006 01:46am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AtlUmpSteve
Quote:

Originally posted by CecilOne
We're now being taught to go out from A on any ball on the foul line side of F9 ("outside the V") and leave the PU with all base calls. [/QUOTE
Who is "we", and who or what organization is doing that teaching?
]"We" are the umpires in our ASA/NFHS association being taught by our in-house instructors.


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