Rule question

[RLG]

Wife's HS game yesterday. R1, batter(pitcher for visiting team) walks, ball gets by catcher. R1 rounds second and heads toward third. Courtsey runner heads from thirdbase dugout toward firstbase during live ball. Catcher begins to throw to thirdbase but does not throw due to CR in her line of fire. Runners move up to third and second. Plate umpire sleeping and BU is moving to third for a call.
What is the ruling. They let the play stand. Thanks

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by RLG
Wife's HS game yesterday. R1, batter(pitcher for visiting team) walks, ball gets by catcher. R1 rounds second and heads toward third. Courtsey runner heads from thirdbase dugout toward firstbase during live ball. Catcher begins to throw to thirdbase but does not throw due to CR in her line of fire. Runners move up to third and second. Plate umpire sleeping and BU is moving to third for a call.
What is the ruling. They let the play stand. Thanks

If the umpire believed the CR kept C from getting R1 out, INT should have been the call and R1 ruled out.

BTW, your wife plays high school ball?

[mcrowder]

I suspect they let the play stand because A) BU was covering a potential play and didn't see CR, and B) PU was sleeping. I would think that if they saw CR out there, this is a pretty easy call to make.

[RLG]

No, my wife is the coach of the HS team and is also an umpire in the summer leagues and fall.
What would you consider the player(CR) on the field? She would not be considered the CR until play has stopped and the umpire has acknowledged her. Can't find anything in FED book that clearly defines the situation, maybe Rule 3-5-5. Does not give the penalty. At least make the runners go back to 1st and 2nd. I would think call R1 out and allow the BR 1st then after fuss have to eject the coach(grin).

[SC Ump]

3-3-1 covers the fact that she is not a CR until it is a dead ball period. 2-32 defines interference as including all offensive personnel and (I agree with you) that 3-5-5 states what was done is not allowed.

Too bad there is no penalty associated with 3-5-5.

It obviously could be ruled an out if interference is judged. It is just not specificially noted in a "penalty" section.

[MA Softball Ump]

Originally posted by RLG
What would you consider the player(CR) on the field? She would not be considered the CR until play has stopped and the umpire has acknowledged her. Can't find anything in FED book that clearly defines the situation, maybe Rule 3-5-5. Does not give the penalty. At least make the runners go back to 1st and 2nd. I would think call R1 out and allow the BR 1st then after fuss have to eject the coach(grin).

Try: 2-32 "...a member of the team at bat who interferes with, impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play...." and, 3-6:6 (only runner(s) and on-deck, and batter allowed on field) and, 10-2:3g would lead to the conclusion that the extra player interfered with the play.

It does not matter what the designation of the member is.

[UmpireErnie]

The key here is that the "CR-to-be" who has entered the feild must actually interfere (in the judgement of the umpire, of course) with an opportunity to make an out. Her wrongful presence on the feild does not automatically constitute interference, nor would it be a reason to kill the play until the umpire judged that interference had taken place.

The PU may not have been asleep after all, he/she may just not have believed that the "CR-to-be" caused F2 to hold up her throw. Can argue that all day but it is a judgement call all the way.

[booker227]

Interference on the non-player. She is not a courtesy runner until a dead ball is called, and she has taken the player's place on the field. Dead-ball, the runner at third is out.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by UmpireErnie
The key here is that the "CR-to-be" who has entered the feild must actually interfere (in the judgement of the umpire, of course) with an opportunity to make an out. Her wrongful presence on the feild does not automatically constitute interference, nor would it be a reason to kill the play until the umpire judged that interference had taken place.

The PU may not have been asleep after all, he/she may just not have believed that the "CR-to-be" caused F2 to hold up her throw. Can argue that all day but it is a judgement call all the way.

I almost agree with this. NFHS 2-32 requires that the fielder be "attempting to make a play" -- play, not out. For interference to be ruled, there must be a play that was interfered with. Merely getting in the way of a defensive player who might have eventually made a play is not interference.

As described, this situation sounded like interference... "Catcher begins to throw to third base..."

Depending on what "begins to throw" means and what the PU saw, this may have been judged a nothing.

[RLG]

I would think you would have to penalize the offense because they had an illegal player on the field during a live ball situation. The player on the field is not a CR until play has stopped and time has been given. The PU had his back turned and was walking back to the plate and saw nothing. Poor mechanics I think.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by RLG
I would think you would have to penalize the offense because they had an illegal player on the field during a live ball situation. The player on the field is not a CR until play has stopped and time has been given. The PU had his back turned and was walking back to the plate and saw nothing. Poor mechanics I think.

If there was no interference, the team should be warned, and if the offense is repeated, the offending player is restricted to the bench. 3-6-6.

The umpire can't call what he didn't see. The PU should not have had his back to the field during live play. Tough for you, poor for him.

[RLG]

Thanks for the information with this messy question.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally posted by booker227
Interference on the non-player. She is not a courtesy runner until a dead ball is called, and she has taken the player's place on the field. Dead-ball, the runner at third is out.

Correct she is not yet a CR, she is an offensive player not yet participating in the game. She has NOT taken another players place she is simply out on the feild and should not be, yet. This is not a reason to call a dead ball, not until this offensive player actually causes interference or all play has ended. You don't want to take away the opportunity for defense to make an out, but they still have to MAKE an out, your not going to give it to them just becuase of this early-CR's presence.

[David Emerling]

Isn't this much simpler than we're making it?

If an offensive player, not authorized to be on the field, interferes with the defense's attempt to make a play on a runner, IT'S INTERFERENCE!

Whether the action by this unauthorized player actually *was* interference is completely a judgment call.

But once it has been determined one way or the other - the ruling is simple.

Not interference - play stands.

Interference - R1 is out.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[officialtony]

Mick,
Can you tell me why my post on this thread was removed?
Did I do something wrong?
Please e-mail me.
Thanks.