Which takes precedence?

[tzme415]

ASA rules - R1 on 2B, Batter hits slow ground ball between F5 and F6 who both charge toward the ball - F6 runs into R1 and knocks R1 into F5 just as F5 is fielding the ball - They all fall on the ground with F5 holding the ball - F5 tags R1 - What do you have?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by tzme415
ASA rules - R1 on 2B, Batter hits slow ground ball between F5 and F6 who both charge toward the ball - F6 runs into R1 and knocks R1 into F5 just as F5 is fielding the ball - They all fall on the ground with F5 holding the ball - F5 tags R1 - What do you have?

Depends on who the umpire is protecting from INT.

If the umpire believed F5 was the fielder in best position to field the ball, OBS.

If the umpire believed F6 was the fielder in the best position to field the ball prior to the contact with R1, INT.

[CecilOne]

Does it have to be " F6 was the fielder in the best position to field the ball " rather than just F6 having a play? I think that only applies to a batted ball hitting the runner, but just 2-checking.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by CecilOne
Does it have to be " F6 was the fielder in the best position to field the ball " rather than just F6 having a play? I think that only applies to a batted ball hitting the runner, but just 2-checking.

Speaking ASA

No, because on many batted balls it is not unlikely that more than one player could make a play on the ball.

The umpire can only protect one defensive player. That means the umpire MUST determine which defensive player is the ONE to field the ball.

[tzme415]

Just to make sure I understand then -

If F6 had, in my judgement, the better play on the ball then we have INT on R1, who is then out and the BR is awarded 1B

If F5 had, in my judgement, the better play on the ball then we have OBS on F6 and R1 is protected to wherever I think s/he would have attained without the OBS

I have been doing some practice games in a sports dome. The bases are only 50 ft and the outfields only about 160 ft to the walls(they play everything off the walls). This makes these grown men playing SP playing in really tight places that seem to cause alot of INT, OBS type of scenarios. Since these are only practice for them and me, the players are not too serious about the calls, but it does offer some interesting scenarios like this.

Thanks

[AtlUmpSteve]

My understanding of 8-8.C is that, on any play, no more than one defensive player can be protected on any batted ball. The act of attempting to field a batted ball does not provide protection; the fielder must be capable of making an out, AND must be the player judged to have the BEST play to make the out, if more than one might have a play.

Many times we will see both 2B and SS chase a ball hit up the middle with no real play; if they impede a runner, that is obstruction.

[Mike Walsh]

Originally posted by AtlUmpSteve
My understanding of 8-8.C is that, on any play, no more than one defensive player can be protected on any batted ball. The act of attempting to field a batted ball does not provide protection; the fielder must be capable of making an out, AND must be the player judged to have the BEST play to make the out, if more than one might have a play.

Many times we will see both 2B and SS chase a ball hit up the middle with no real play; if they impede a runner, that is obstruction.

I pose these as questions rather than statements because I do Fed, not ASA softball.

Isn't protection limited to one player at a time, rather than to one player? For example, the umpire can start off providing protection to F3 on a high pop-up, but shift protection to F4 when the wind moves the ball in that diretion (or F4 calls off F3)?

Why wouldn't a player be afforded protection even if you didn't think she was capable of getting an out? With R2 and a slow ball hit to F6, it might be obvious that a speedy B2 can't be put out. Nevertheless, R2 is prohibited from crashing into F6 because F6 is protected while fielding the ball. This is because she is making a play, not because she is capable of making an out. Correct? Of course, in your example I agree that it is obstruction, but not only is she not capable of an out, she is not making a play when she is chasing a ball.

Mike

[bkbjones]

Originally posted by Mike Walsh

I pose these as questions rather than statements because I do Fed, not ASA softball.

Isn't protection limited to one player at a time, rather than to one player? For example, the umpire can start off providing protection to F3 on a high pop-up, but shift protection to F4 when the wind moves the ball in that diretion (or F4 calls off F3)?

Why wouldn't a player be afforded protection even if you didn't think she was capable of getting an out? With R2 and a slow ball hit to F6, it might be obvious that a speedy B2 can't be put out. Nevertheless, R2 is prohibited from crashing into F6 because F6 is protected while fielding the ball. This is because she is making a play, not because she is capable of making an out. Correct? Of course, in your example I agree that it is obstruction, but not only is she not capable of an out, she is not making a play when she is chasing a ball.

Mike

There is a difference between ASA and NFHS. NFHS you have the ability to make a play, ASA the ability to make an out. They're all apples, but Very different apples when it comes to ASA and NFHS.

[Mike Walsh]

Originally posted by bkbjones

There is a difference between ASA and NFHS. NFHS you have the ability to make a play, ASA the ability to make an out. They're all apples, but Very different apples when it comes to ASA and NFHS.

Ahhhh! Boy, am I glad I didn't try to come off all huffy.

Mike

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Mike Walsh

I pose these as questions rather than statements because I do Fed, not ASA softball.

Isn't protection limited to one player at a time, rather than to one player? For example, the umpire can start off providing protection to F3 on a high pop-up, but shift protection to F4 when the wind moves the ball in that diretion (or F4 calls off F3)?

Of course, they could. No one stated that the umpire had to make such a determination as the ball is batted. But it must be made prior to the possibility of an event between fielder and runner occuring.

Why wouldn't a player be afforded protection even if you didn't think she was capable of getting an out? With R2 and a slow ball hit to F6, it might be obvious that a speedy B2 can't be put out. Nevertheless, R2 is prohibited from crashing into F6 because F6 is protected while fielding the ball. This is because she is making a play, not because she is capable of making an out. Correct? Of course, in your example I agree that it is obstruction, but not only is she not capable of an out, she is not making a play when she is chasing a ball.

Mike

Because the discussion is based on multiple fielders in position to possibly make a play on the batted ball.

Even in your scenario above, R2 is not the only active runner and, no matter how fast s/he is, if a runner isn't in contact with a base, s/he is in jeopardy of being retired.