The Official Forum - Control (out) or not?

Quote:

Originally posted by AtlUmpSteve

Quote:

Originally posted by SC Ump
For it to be a catch on a batted or thrown ball, a ball must be released voluntarily. This is not the primary concern in a tag play.

In a tag, the ball must be held securely during the tag.

With the above statement, it sounds as if the tag was not yet judged by the offical to be completed and thus I believe it should be safe.

That's not totally true. According to ASA Rules, a valid catch is established if "the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove total control of it and/or that the release of the ball is voluntary and intentional." In the words of Henry Pollard, that meant that if the umpire felt that the fielder COULD have released the ball voluntarily, then you should consider that a catch.

Nonetheless, I suspect we are picking at nits, and all have about the same interpretation; we are somewhat limited by the description. If the tag was complete, we saw control, and then the runner kicked the ball out, we have an out. If we didn't see control, then we don't have an out. How long does it take, or how long was the time lapse here? Can't be described, so why pick at it? Bottom line, you have a tougher sell on the out, and we don't guess outs, so if you aren't sure, the runner is safe.

Like Andy, I made this statement way back. After reading all the variations, I still see the issue the same. If we clearly saw control after the tag, we have an out; everyone agrees on that, and agrees we sell that call. The disagreement is how long is long enough to establish control, and that is now where there may be disagreement, even if we all actually saw the play; it's called judgment, not a rule interpretation dispute. Absent clear control after the tag in the judgment of the calling umpire, we have a safe call.