Coach asking you for help?

[Andy]

Originally posted by SRW

You must mean the "Profit Sharing". If I recall, that subject is taboo for you. Get off my field.

I don't know about you guys, but I stash my bonus money on the yacht!!!!

(Inside joke for those that frequent the eteamz board)

[U of M Sam]

Originally posted by FUBLUE
Had a coach this weekend ask me if I could detect when his pitcher was throwing a change up. Well, yes, you can, but only at the very end...and part of it may be that I've umpired her since she was 9, so I kind of know her tendencies and her motion.

BUt my question to you is...do you tell him? If so, when?

If a coach asks me the question mentioned, I simply answer "Yes", in a very polite manner. I have no reason to provide any more explaniation.
Sam

[IRISHMAFIA]

To me, the obvious response has been overlooked.

Why wouldn't an umpire respond, "Coach, shouldn't you be asking your catcher that question?

[Coach D]

I agree that a catcher should be the one to ask. However if your dealing with 10 to 12 year old catchers you will probably get the shoulder shrug. I think this all boils down to a coach wanting a little conversation with the official. A coach can tell,sitting on his bucket, whether his pitcher is tipping her change up. A good coach knows if his pitchers balls are breaking or not.(no pun intended).

[David Emerling]

Originally posted by Coach D
I agree that a catcher should be the one to ask. However if your dealing with 10 to 12 year old catchers you will probably get the shoulder shrug. I think this all boils down to a coach wanting a little conversation with the official. A coach can tell,sitting on his bucket, whether his pitcher is tipping her change up. A good coach knows if his pitchers balls are breaking or not.(no pun intended).

And if a 10-12 yr old catcher can't tell, then neither can a 10-12 batter. So what difference would it then make whether the pitcher is tipping her pitches or not?

I think you're right - I would interpret this conversation as the coach trying to "suck up" to the umpire by trying to inflate the umpire's ego. The coach is creating the impression that he VALUES the umpire's assessment and opinion. Seldom does the coach need, nor want, any tactical help from the umpire.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Edited by David Emerling on Dec 11th, 2005 at 08:39 AM]

[tcannizzo]

Based on my 15 years of coaching experience, I will simply state that a certain percentage of the umpires that called my games would engage in some light banter about the weather, the schedule, the game, a play, etc.

I don't think I was "sucking up" to these umpires, any more than they were "sucking up" to me.

Depending on the game situation, such as a "blow-out-in-progress" there may have been discussions about certain specific mechanics of pitchers, fielders, batters, catchers, base-runners, etc. either during or after a game.

There are many other "neutral" situations that could deem such dialogs as "OK". Of course, there are just as many other situations where such dialog is not OK.

This comes under the category of Game Management. You need to know when it is OK and when it isn't. If you are in doubt, then assume it isn't. But never be so inflexible to adjust to the sitch.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by tcannizzo


There are many other "neutral" situations that could deem such dialogs as "OK". Of course, there are just as many other situations where such dialog is not OK.

This comes under the category of Game Management. You need to know when it is OK and when it isn't. If you are in doubt, then assume it isn't. But never be so inflexible to adjust to the sitch.

Problem is that once a conversation begins, it is ofter harder to determine the location of that line. This is why I suggest you don't start the conversation during the game. If a coach wants to approach me after a game, away from the field, players and fans, I'll talk to him/her about certain plays and rules applications. However, player performance and mechanics are topic I choose not to address. I'll talk to other umpires about things I see, but only with working umpires.

[David Emerling]

Originally posted by tcannizzo
Based on my 15 years of coaching experience, I will simply state that a certain percentage of the umpires that called my games would engage in some light banter about the weather, the schedule, the game, a play, etc.

I don't think I was "sucking up" to these umpires, any more than they were "sucking up" to me.

Depending on the game situation, such as a "blow-out-in-progress" there may have been discussions about certain specific mechanics of pitchers, fielders, batters, catchers, base-runners, etc. either during or after a game.

There are many other "neutral" situations that could deem such dialogs as "OK". Of course, there are just as many other situations where such dialog is not OK.

This comes under the category of Game Management. You need to know when it is OK and when it isn't. If you are in doubt, then assume it isn't. But never be so inflexible to adjust to the sitch.

Like I said earlier, most people that have been doing this a while (both coaches and umpires) usually have a good sense of what the game is all "about".

There are such things as casual/friendly games. Such games exist when everybody knows everybody and nothing of substance is on the line. Everybody is on the same page.

I think such games would provide a small exception to what we're talking about here.

* * *

Example: I once was working the plate during what amounted to not much more than a practice game between two teams. I called a pitch a "ball" and immediately realized I had blown it. Even though nobody complained I commented to the batter and catcher, "that was probably a pretty good pitch." Then, jokingly, I told the batter, "the strikezone just got bigger." The next pitch was a bit low which I called a "strike." I looked over at the offensive coach and said, "I had to make up for the last bad call. Now we're even." He just chuckled. He was a friend of mine! I knew all the players. We were all just having some fun. No big deal.

I wouldn't DREAM of having these type of exchanges under different circumstances.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[CecilOne]

What I've been taught and learned and believe is never discuss the way players play, the way coaches coach, etc. because any help gives that team an advantage in that game or a later one. That aspect and even joking makeup calls affect your credibility for being neutral.
What if:
- you give a pitcher your reaction to her motion and she fools the last batter in the game into a K; or
- someone hears you make that comment and expects the same help for their team; or
- someone hears you make a suggestion to the team who is their opponent in the finals; or
- not everyone knows the "makeup call" was a joke (better to change the first one)?

All we have is our neutrality and consistency, so let's not be so casul about them.

[FUBLUE]

I've been sitting back and enjoying the conversations and discussions here over the question I posted. Let me tell you what I did.

Situation: Indoor tournament (hey, there's a foot of snow on the ground here) in a "blow-out-in-progress" type of game. Coach calling pitches is pitcher's dad. Pitcher is a top notch pitcher, now 15 year old. Very good. D-One Quality player already. Hard thrower. Impecable control.

Coach asks the question stated above. My reply: talk to me after the game. He does.

"Yes, coach/dad, she tips it right at the end, but it's almost unnoticable. The change looks just like the fastball until right at the end."

I could have told them during the game, but chose not to. Not that I think there is anything wrong with that (in this situation), but I chose not to say anything about it.

Remember to all those of us who would not answer the question, we must make a professional reply to the request, not just "shrug it off." I've seen far too many solid officials stop officiating becuase they get a reputation as "stuck up" and "egomaniacs" by not talking to coaches in a polite, professional manner.

[Coach D]

Now that's the reply and repore' I would want with an umpire. Sounds like you sir are the type of person that I would like to be on the field with.
Thank You

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by FUBLUE
I've seen far too many solid officials stop officiating becuase they get a reputation as "stuck up" and "egomaniacs" by not talking to coaches in a polite, professional manner.

If a sports official allowed such a perception to affect them in such a manner, I would have to question how solid an official s/he was to begin.

[scottk_61]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by newatumpiring

i know that i am new her and ll that but i find your remarks egotistical

sorry

Looks like one of the trolls from the baseball board has decided to come over here to play.

[Edited by scottk_61 on Dec 13th, 2005 at 11:34 AM]

[Dakota]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by scottk_61

Originally posted by newatumpiring

Looks like one of the trolls from the baseball board has decided to come over here to play.

Troll, maybe, but if he finds Mike's remarks "egotistical" he'll never survive on the baseball board. Over there, that remark would be almost self-effacing.

[FUBLUE]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

If a sports official allowed such a perception to affect them in such a manner, I would have to question how solid an official s/he was to begin.

I respect your opinion, but I too disagree with you.

I know several very good balls, strikes, out, safe and mechanical umpires who I'd go anywhere with except for their crappy attitudes towards the game. They are bigger than the game and try to "show their stuff" during the game. To me, that gives off stuck up and egomaniacal attitude that turns coaches off (and it really does, trust me).