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Tue Oct 04, 2005, 03:06pm
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Scott It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it. 
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Tue Oct 04, 2005, 03:55pm
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Yes, but I think inherent in the definition of this play was the fact that ALL participants (namely the batter-runner) did NOT, in fact, see the ball. A mild signal might have been in order. But the lack of signal is certainly no reason to protect the runner. I have an out on this one as well.
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"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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Tue Oct 04, 2005, 06:08pm
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on this play
On this play, it was clear that the ball was not caught. The throw from F6 was in the dirt, and on the attempted scoop the ball came out and rolled about 7-10 feet from F3.
IMO, this is the same philosophy as not calling obvious foul balls.
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Blu
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Wed Oct 05, 2005, 06:42am
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But Andy was correct. Not talking about balls simply dropped, but those which have passed by or are rolling away from the play that should be apparent to everyone.
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Wed Oct 05, 2005, 06:48am
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Why an out?
I am assuming some things here, like if you ruled the runner safe, I would assume that the reached first base. They are allowed to overrun first base without being in jeapardy unless they make an attempt toward second; from your post,it does not appear that there was an attempt to advance toward second. So why would the runner be in jeopardy of being tagged out?
I might live with this being interpreted that the runner abandoned their base, but I still can't see how you would consider the runner in jeopardy. I agree with all the mechanics discussed. "No ball, no call" for a ball that eludes the first baseman and it is apparent to everyone that the ball is loose. On one that the first baseman drops and it relatively close to first and they can retrieve quickly, I have a point, "ball's on the ground, safe" verbal call.
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Wed Oct 05, 2005, 07:03am
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Re: Why an out?
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glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain.
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Wed Oct 05, 2005, 08:45am
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No cheap out....What's the coach doing?
__________________
glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain.
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Wed Oct 05, 2005, 11:51am
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If this coach isn't on the ball enough to catch this and have the runner return to 1B, then the school should be looking for a new coach. Also, a BR may overrun 1B, but they are to immediately return to the base or advance, not meander around the field until they are ready to commit. The play, initial no call and out seems obvious to me.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Thu Oct 06, 2005, 08:24am
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 However, I still don't believe that the NCAA level is an excuse for poor base coaching.
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Mon Nov 07, 2005, 11:37am
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Are you saying that NCAA umpires are taught to signal NOTHING when ... the BR reaches first before and the defense has failed to secure the ball in time while in contact with the bag? How odd! Why would the offense not get the benefit of "Safe!" call in this instance? There is nothing pending. At the time the BR crossed the bag the defense had not yet gained possession of the ball and tagged the bag. That's just about the DEFINITION of being safe - isn't it? She's safe! Why not say so? Am I missing something? It seems a "no call" would only serve to create confusion. David Emerling Memphis, TN [Edited by David Emerling on Nov 7th, 2005 at 11:40 AM]
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Mon Nov 07, 2005, 03:14pm
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The NCAA is only trying to eliminate extraneous, obvious calls. If the whole ball park can see that the runner is safe, there is no call. The line between call and no-call will be a little different for each umpire and will certainly vary as an umpire gets used to using the no-call. It is just another level on the call chart (ie. overhand sell, vocal hammer, non-vocal hammer, no-call, non-vocal safe, vocal safe, sell safe) that NCAA umpires are expected to put in their bag.
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Wade Ireland Softball Umpire
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Mon Nov 07, 2005, 06:11pm
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We are not talking about close plays and a bobbled ball. We are talking about a throw to first that gets by F3 and rolls to the fence while the BR slows down after running through the bag. The guys in the space station can see the runner is safe, so why should the umpire stand there looking at a vacant space on the field giving a safe signal? Part of this is to allow the umpire to give more of a priority in following the ball and repositioning themselves for a possible following play. Same thing with an obvious foul ball. If it's over the backstop, the stands and onto the neighboring field, why is there a need for a big foul call? Unless there are runner's moving or a fielder heading toward a fence, there is no reason for such a call. Reach in the bag and get another ball.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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