Protest?

[whiskers_ump]

Dakota,

Not trying to be smart, but how may outda park home
runs have you seen in 10U. I understand the point
you are making is the jeopardy thing.

[Dakota]

...by out of the park!

I've seen lots of 10U "home runs". You know, nice little fly ball into the outfield followed by 4-5 errors & overthrows. Throw to F5 goes "outa da park" - there you go - THAT'S GAME

Actually, I was just explaining why I just breezed right past the fact that this was an adult game being discussed.

[Rich Ives]

Softball must have REALLY STRANGE rules.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
Softball must have REALLY STRANGE rules.

I can't speak for the other organizations, but to the best of my knowledge, ASA rules are so plain and the book is very easy to understand (as long as you only read what they write), other game's rules aren't even in the same league.

Softball, regardless of sanctioning body, is one of the few sports where the majority have an overseeing organization at the national level to provide leadership and standardization of the rules and mechanics of their officiating corps.

Baseball is a perfect example. Whether you are citing OBR, NAPBL or Jim Evans, Little League or Babe Ruth, you may get 50 different interpretations in 50 different states on one particular rule.

Go visit the baseball boards and see constant arguments involving a multitude of interpretations and another set of arguments five-fold on who is interpreting the rule correctly.

I'll stick with softball, thank you very much!

[oppool]

Mike,

It's taken the baseball guys 32 replies to figure out how to gave a 3 and 2 count so I dont feel to bad that we have 18 replies on this. Huh?


Taking it easy

Don

[Rich Ives]

Here's why I made the comment about softball rules. I was just curious as to what differences there in softball rules that would cause this to be called differently.


In OBR, rule 4.09 states that when the winning run is scored in the last half-inning as a result of any play with the bases full which forces the the runner to advance from third, the umpire shall not declare the game over until the runner form third has touched home and the batter-runner has touched first. There is no requirement that other runners advance.

In the penalty section it states "If, before two are out, the batter-runner refuses to advance to and touch first base, THE RUN SHALL COUNT, but the offending player shall be called out."

This is exactly the situation described. One out. Bases full. Batter-runner didn't touch first. Runner from third did touch home. In baseball, the run counts. The game is over.

In the playoffs, Robin Ventura was essentially ruled out for abandonment following his didn't-run-it-out grand slam. The game was still over. The Mets still won. The score was adjusted accordingly.

[Dakota]

Here is the crux of the debate, from my perspective:

1. ASA rules define the play on BR at first as a force play (unlike OBR). 8-8-G.

2. ASA rules require all base runners to complete their duties, regardless. 8-8-G

3. ASA rules allow appeals on missed bases any time up to the time all infielders leave fair territory or umpires leave the field. 8-8 EFFECT F-I

4. ASA rules allow umpires to rectify any situation where an erroneous call by the umpire placed the runner or batter-runner in jeopardy. 10-6-C.

This much is clear: if the umpire had not called “BALL GAME” the appeals would be valid, and done properly, could have nullified the run and forced the game into extra innings.

The debate was whether the umpire’s call placed the runners in jeopardy, and if so whether therefore this should be rectified.

Answer: (IMO) umpire’s judgment. If in his judgment, he placed the runners in jeopardy, disallow the appeals, game over. If in his judgment, these players were not confused by the call (i.e. they decided on their own to quit running and start celebrating) then allow the appeals, batter up!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota
This much is clear: if the umpire had not called “BALL GAME” the appeals would be valid, and done properly, could have nullified the run and forced the game into extra innings.

The debate was whether the umpire’s call placed the runners in jeopardy, and if so whether therefore this should be rectified.

Answer: (IMO) umpire’s judgment. If in his judgment, he placed the runners in jeopardy, disallow the appeals, game over. If in his judgment, these players were not confused by the call (i.e. they decided on their own to quit running and start celebrating) then allow the appeals, batter up!

Dakota,

My only problem with this is:

A. The term "ball game" has no official standing.

B. How can runners who are entitled to advance without liability to be put out be placed into jeopardy. For that matter, because this was a dead ball situation, they could have all returned and touched their respective bases before any appeal could be honored.

Now, if any of them crossed paths, they could be ruled out for "passing" another active runner or, if they left playable territory, they could be declared out. However, all it would take would one runner to legally return and touch the base to allow the game to end and the appeal would not be effective.

[Dakota]

I didn't mean to restart the debate. I was only trying to explain to our BB friend why there was a debate!

[Rich Ives]

OK, I got it - the rules are different.

[whiskers_ump]

Nice research Dakota, you really got into that one.

[Steve M]

Rich,
Yeah, they are definitely different games. Talk to Roger, he's got a nice (and short) summary for high school ball as to the rule differences between BB & SB.