What more do I have to do?

[Andy]

ASA tournament this past weekend, 12u game, I am the BU.

Play: B1 hits ball to right center for a base hit. Ball get by F8, BR rounds first to go to second, but has to stutter-step and go around F3 watching the ball in the outfield. My left arm goes out, I say "obstruction" and follow the BR to second. F8 recovers the ball and throws to F6 covering second, the BR is tagged sliding into second base. I throw both arms up in the air and yell "DEAD BALL", "I have obstruction on the first baseman, runner is awarded second". Pretty easy call, I'm thinking.

I turn around and here comes the offensive coach...."Hey, Blue...what about the obstruction at first base?"


...Sigh.....

[baldgriff]

A flashing neon sign that says "Obstruction" may have gotten the message across.

[mcrowder]

I had a very similar sitch last year. Obvious (and blatant) OBS by F4 preventing a runner from getting back to 2nd base on a caught fly ball. Ball comes in and I immediately say "Dead ball! Obstruction on the second baseman. You (the runner) - Second Base"

Offensive coach requests and gets time from the plate umpire as I'm moving to C. I turn around and there she is. "How can you make that call?!?! Did you see the obstruction?" Flabbergasted, I say, "Yes." She says, "Then how can you call my runner out?!?!" "I didn't - she's standing right there (pointing to 2nd)". "This is bull$hit!" Ejection.

2 games later I have her again and she apologizes profusely before the game, explaining that she had completely lost her head, and was used to OBS being screwed up in her home town.

[CecilOne]

I have an idea (no comments, please).

How about the runner being sent back a base because the coach came on the field?

BTW, is obstruction on a fielder or by a fielder?
Please tell me if that is a hijack.

[baldgriff]

OK - Now I have a question....

Maybe this is a ASA/USSSA mechanics thing. I do USSSA, and at the clinic this year the Regional UIC told us that if we get and OBS let the play finish. IF the person was out - make the out call and then refer back to your obstruction.

Essentially

R1 is obstructed (extend left arm signaling the OBS) on way to 2B slides in and tagged out.

Call the out.

Re-establish the left arm OBS signal

Reverse the out and rule runner safe

Also, both instances previously mentioned have the umpire announcing a "Dead Ball". Why are we making this announcement? OBS does not stop the play from continuing and the ball remains live until play is stopped/time is called. Is this just another one of those mechanics things?

Thanks

[CecilOne]

On an OBS situation, an apparent out causes an immediate dead ball in most softball, don't know USSSA. Not mechanics, but a rule.

[mcrowder]

I believe it's true in U-trip as well, that a DDB becomes a dead ball if the obstructed runner is tagged (or forced) out.

[streamdoc]

Again, I'm winging it because my rule book is buried deep somewhere. The way that I had it explained to me was that once a play is made on the obstructed runner, you should call "dead ball" and clean it up at that point (award the runner to the protected spot, place the other runners at the appropriate bases, etc.). I had this happen during my first year. Clear (to me) obstruction at the plate. I signaled, and called obstruction, then let the runners finish their running, then awarded home to the obstructed runner. It seemed very strange to me to let the runners keep running, all the while holding out the left arm, and making no distinct out or safe call at home on a close play. So, I asked the UIC after the game and was given direction to "dead ball" it once a play is made on the obstructed runner. There is a question, either on one of the tests, or during one of our clinics that is True/False. It says something like, "Delayed dead ball is always called when there is obstruction". I answered False thinking that if the obstruction happened against a runner upon which a play is being made, then you would just call "dead ball". The correct answer was true, but I guess you call obstruction and signal delayed dead ball, then immediately call dead ball and do the awarding.

I'm adding a bit to my post. I believe that mc has hit on something that I should clarify regarding my post. Since the definition of "making a play" as I reference in my post could include a fake throw (as in the LBR), it should be mentioned that mc is more correct in that the dead ball should be called when and if the tag is applied or the runner is forced out, not simply when the defense makes a play. I was considering making a play one in which the runner is either tagged or forced out.

Plus, I don't think you should have to call the out, then call dead ball and reverse your out call, awarding bases. Seems a bit over the top. Can anyone explain why an umpire would want to handle this situation in that manner?

[Edited by streamdoc on Aug 4th, 2005 at 04:02 PM]

[azbigdawg]

Andy..obviously you did not provide a written explanation to the coach..or maybe a drawing in Crayon.....

[baldgriff]

Originally posted by CecilOne
On an OBS situation, an apparent out causes an immediate dead ball in most softball, don't know USSSA. Not mechanics, but a rule.

SO runners on 1st base and the ball is hit to SS in the hole. 1B steps in front of R1 going to the bad and creates an OBS. SS throws to 2B for play on R1. Are you killing it dead ball there or letting the play continue so 2B can make the throw to 1B on the batter/runner?

Regarding my UIC's instrunctions this is what I surmise:
I am going to have to reread this (again USSSA), but I believe that an OBS is a call that is applied once the ball is dead. Therefore you make the call "out" during live ball. Call time - and then apply the OBS call.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by streamdoc
Again, I'm winging it because my rule book is buried deep somewhere. The way that I had it explained to me was that once a play is made on the obstructed runner, you should call "dead ball" and clean it up at that point (award the runner to the protected spot, place the other runners at the appropriate bases, etc.).

Speaking ASA

This is incorrect. The umpire does not kill the play unless the OBS runner is put out or all obvious play has been completed. You do not kill it just because there was a play on the OBS runner.

I had this happen during my first year. Clear (to me) obstruction at the plate. I signaled, and called obstruction, then let the runners finish their running, then awarded home to the obstructed runner. It seemed very strange to me to let the runners keep running, all the while holding out the left arm, and making no distinct out or safe call at home on a close play. So, I asked the UIC after the game and was given direction to "dead ball" it once a play is made on the obstructed runner.

Either you misunderstood the UIC, or s/he needs to review the rule and mechanic. You let the play finish because the defense can still make plays on other runners, runners (including OBS runner) may still advance at their own peril.

There is a question, either on one of the tests, or during one of our clinics that is True/False. It says something like, "Delayed dead ball is always called when there is obstruction". I answered False thinking that if the obstruction happened against a runner upon which a play is being made, then you would just call "dead ball". The correct answer was true, but I guess you call obstruction and signal delayed dead ball, then immediately call dead ball and do the awarding.

Think about that one. Why would you signal DDB and then immediately kill the ball?

I'm adding a bit to my post. I believe that mc has hit on something that I should clarify regarding my post. Since the definition of "making a play" as I reference in my post could include a fake throw (as in the LBR), it should be mentioned that mc is more correct in that the dead ball should be called when and if the tag is applied or the runner is forced out, not simply when the defense makes a play. I was considering making a play one in which the runner is either tagged or forced out.

Plus, I don't think you should have to call the out, then call dead ball and reverse your out call, awarding bases. Seems a bit over the top. Can anyone explain why an umpire would want to handle this situation in that manner?

Remember, your partner may not be aware of the OBS call, so it is quite possible that s/he will follow through with the play and call the OBS runner out. That's when the umpire making the OBS call steps in and makes the ruling.

If the umpire making the call is the umpire which ruled OBS, then no "OUT" call should be made, but simply call "DEAD BALL" and rule on the OBS.

[mcrowder]

Originally posted by baldgriff
SO runners on 1st base and the ball is hit to SS in the hole. 1B steps in front of R1 going to the bad and creates an OBS. SS throws to 2B for play on R1. Are you killing it dead ball there or letting the play continue so 2B can make the throw to 1B on the batter/runner?

Kill it. By rule.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by mcrowder
By rule.

I was going to repeat what I posted at 3:48, but Mike would see I was being defensive.


[Edited by CecilOne on Aug 4th, 2005 at 06:03 PM]