What Value is the "Foul Tip Signal"?

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Seems to me that the signal would be helpful in communicating to coaches, runner and infielders that even though they may have heard the ball hit the bat, or that the catcher dug up a lot of dirt/dust on a low pitch that the umpire still considers that ball live and to continue play.

Agreed, it is often needed to communicate that it was not a foul ball, that it went directly, cleanly caught, etc. which sometimes is not as obvious to those on base or in the dugout.

[Panda Bear]

The mechanic of pointing to the upper left chest with just the index finger when you have an infield fly with one out is an alternative I've seen taught to the NFHS & NCAA mechanic where the IF signal is the hand palm open on the chest (see pg. 22 of the NCAA Umpire manual).

The "alternative" I'm referring to is a closed fist (no fingers) if 0 outs, and 1 finger (the index finger) if 1 out, which (IMO) is actually better in that it indicates more info. than just acknowledging the IF possibility. And (again IMO) it is better than pointing at the brim of your cap with 1 finger, an older mechanic still very common, at least in this area.


The "Time[ing] Play" signal is a defined signal in the NCAA Umpire manual (pg. 39), and is fairly commonly used in other sanctions, again, at least around here. It is a tap of the left wrist where a watch is normally worn with 1-2 fingers of the right hand. It is an alert/reminder that the possibility of a timing play exists, usually runner(s) on, in scoring position, with 2 outs.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Panda Bear

The "Time[ing] Play" signal is a defined signal in the NCAA Umpire manual (pg. 39), and is fairly commonly used in other sanctions, again, at least around here. It is a tap of the left wrist where a watch is normally worn with 1-2 fingers of the right hand. It is an alert/reminder that the possibility of a timing play exists, usually runner(s) on, in scoring position, with 2 outs.

With all due respect to the NCAA gurus, a timing play is a possibility on many different scenarios regardless of the number of outs.

[Panda Bear]

Agreed, timing can be a factor in many situations without 2 out.

I was merely repeating what is in the NCAA manual, and describing the typical use of the signal (2 out) as I have seen it employed by others, in my attempt to explain the signal in response to the post that asked what the timing signal is.

[LilLeaguer]

One of my colleagues who was trained in the 60's mentioned the other night that his school gave a reason for the mechanic.

Basically, the idea is to double-check the PU. If he signals "foul tip," but the ball is on the ground, then the BU could signal "foul ball." I can see how this might prevent some mistakes (by a sloppy PU) on strike three or runners moving, but I'm not sure how valuable the overall mechanic would be. And today, we don't look for mechanics designed to cause one umpire to "overrule" another.

-LL

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Panda Bear
Agreed, timing can be a factor in many situations without 2 out.

I was merely repeating what is in the NCAA manual, and describing the typical use of the signal (2 out) as I have seen it employed by others, in my attempt to explain the signal in response to the post that asked what the timing signal is.

Not questioning you, but the NCAA (see lead-in to my post).

I appreciate that you responded to provide the info I was seeking.

Thanks,

[bkbjones]

Sorry, would have replied except been a little busy with a national the last week.

Yes, timing plays can happen with any number of outs, runners on base, etc. Didn't mean to infer it can only happen with two outs, but guess that looking back at what I wrote, it certainly could (as was) be inferred that is what I meant. I'm not as stupid as what I wrote, but apparently THAT was inferred, too.

BTW, I used the foul tip signal several times over the course of the week and was never dinged for it...