What Value is the "Foul Tip Signal"?

[tcannizzo]

We all know what a foul tip is. But what is the value of the signal with the finger tips?

If the catcher doesn't catch it, we have a foul ball.

If the cather catches it, we have a live ball.

Since the ball is live until the umpire gives a dead ball signal, why is it necessary to signify that the ball is live? It is wasted motion.

I am not questioning the rules and effects of a foul tip versus a foul ball, but questioning the need to signal it.

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally posted by tcannizzo
We all know what a foul tip is. But what is the value of the signal with the finger tips?

If the catcher doesn't catch it, we have a foul ball.

If the cather catches it, we have a live ball.

Since the ball is live until the umpire gives a dead ball signal, why is it necessary to signify that the ball is live? It is wasted motion.

I am not questioning the rules and effects of a foul tip versus a foul ball, but questioning the need to signal it.

Because it gets you in the habit of signalling it...because when that tip is strike 3, you HAVE to signal it...and because THEY want you to...thats why! (also a lot of times checked swings result in tips also...)

[U_of_I_Blue]

I understand your logic behind THEY wanting us to, but I don't understand why it has to be done on strike three. The prinicple stated above is still correct. If the umpire doesn't call a dead ball, it's live and in play, the batter swung on a third strike so she's out. Maybe something different about it being the third strike exists but is slipping my mind.

I believe this was discussed over on the baseball side quite a while back, with many people's view being tcan's. I think the consensus ended up being, that's how THEY want it done, so that's how WE do it.

[ntxblue]

At advanced school several years ago, they taught the group that the foul tip signal was no longer a "preferred mechanic", but simply a strike. They encouraged us to embrace the new non-signal but accepted that old habits . . .

[scottk_61]

The foul tip signal is a "courtesy signal" as far as I am concerned.
However, ASA says we don't need it and shouldn't indicate it while Fed ball requires it and even has the signal in the charts.

When in Rome.........

[Antonella]

Originally posted by tcannizzo
(...) Since the ball is live until the umpire gives a dead ball signal, why is it necessary to signify that the ball is live? It is wasted motion. (...)

Maybe is wasted motion... I don't know the exact reason for this kind of signal (ISF requires it, though).
In my opinion is good to see an umpire who is always aware of the things happening under her/his nose. And if this umpire is conscious that a foul tip occurred, so why don't s/he hadn't to show it to everybody by making a signal?
It's a sort of 'no tag' signal... just to show players + coach + spectators we saw it.

A.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Seems to me that the signal would be helpful in communicating to coaches, runner and infielders that even though they may have heard the ball hit the bat, or that the catcher dug up a lot of dirt/dust on a low pitch that the umpire still considers that ball live and to continue play.

[mcrowder]

Sitch 1 - old mechanic. R1 on first stealing. Pitch foul-tipped. PU gives foul tip signal, R2 achieves 2nd base without a throw. Result: No chirping from the peanut gallery.

Sitch 2 - mechanic of not signaling FT. R1 on fist stealing. Pitch foul-tipped. PU does nothing, R2 achieves 2nd base without a throw. Result: "Time" requested by coach, followed by a conversation explaining that you saw the foul tip, and yes the catcher caught the ball. And yes, you know the rules.

I prefer sitch 1.

[tcannizzo]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Seems to me that the signal would be helpful in communicating to coaches, runner and infielders that even though they may have heard the ball hit the bat, or that the catcher dug up a lot of dirt/dust on a low pitch that the umpire still considers that ball live and to continue play.

But it does not help F2. The player with the ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by tcannizzo

But it does not help F2. The player with the ball.

Don't care about F2. That player should know the situation since that person should be prepared to make any play in front of them, foul tip or not. The C should also be aware of whether the ball was caught or not.

[bkbjones]

If "They" don't want it, say at Advanced National School, and it's an old mechanic but still accepted...

THEN WHY IN THE HELL IS IT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PAGE ON SIGNALS IN THE ASA UMPIRE MANUAL.

Timing play signal isn't there, but a lot of people use it, and I would hope it gains acceptance since it is a valuable signal/mechanic in many situations.

The horrible (IMHO) mechanic of pointing to the upper left chest with just the index finger when you have an infield fly with one out isn't in there, but a LOT of people use it.

The foul tip signal is there. Use it.IMHO it is far more valuable, for reasons described above, then it is to not use it and conserve the three calories of energy used to signal it.

[tcannizzo]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Don't care about F2. That player should know the situation since that person should be prepared to make any play in front of them, foul tip or not. The C should also be aware of whether the ball was caught or not.

Then why would you care about everyone else that you mentioned in your post? Shouldn't the same thing apply to them?

Everyone on the field knows that C caught the ball, including C.

[whaddayouknow]

When I do it, I do it sharp and crisp and it looks good. That's why I do it. It's the same signal I give by polishing my shoes. I want to look like an umpire that knows what he's doing, whether I do or not.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by bkbjones

Timing play signal isn't there, but a lot of people use it, and I would hope it gains acceptance since it is a valuable signal/mechanic in many situations.

The horrible (IMHO) mechanic of pointing to the upper left chest with just the index finger when you have an infield fly with one out isn't in there, but a LOT of people use it.

I have no idea what a "timing play signal" is and have never seen the IF signal you suggested.

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally posted by bkbjones
If "They" don't want it, say at Advanced National School, and it's an old mechanic but still accepted...

THEN WHY IN THE HELL IS IT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PAGE ON SIGNALS IN THE ASA UMPIRE MANUAL.

Timing play signal isn't there, but a lot of people use it, and I would hope it gains acceptance since it is a valuable signal/mechanic in many situations.

The horrible (IMHO) mechanic of pointing to the upper left chest with just the index finger when you have an infield fly with one out isn't in there, but a LOT of people use it.

'Timing signal'?????


also, I have never seen that inf fly signal either.....we around here DO remind each other, however, how many outs by either the no or one out signal to the side simultaneous with the hand to the chest...