Why 15? why 8? (mercy rule)

[NDblue]

SRW,

You see, that's where you're wrong. I didn't get lazy. I was getting frustrated at the losing team not having a single decent ball player on the team and still entering the largest weekend SP softball tournament in the world. Waste of $150 and a weekend if you ask me.

Mismatched? Is that how you see it? This is a lot worse that just 2 mismatched teams. Have you ever officiated a game that ran almost 2 hours and only went 4 innings? It was brutal to say the least. Is your strike zone perfect for every pitch in every level of slow pitch softball? If so, you must ump some very long games and walk a lot of batters. I'll expand a strike zone to get a batter to swing the bat. SP softball is not a pitchers game and to be honest, called or swinging strike outs should be rare. In my 20 years of playing softball, I can't remember ever swinging and missing a less than 25 MPH pitched ball that's as big as a grapefruit.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by NDblue
SRW,

You see, that's where you're wrong. I didn't get lazy. I was getting frustrated at the losing team not having a single decent ball player on the team and still entering the largest weekend SP softball tournament in the world. Waste of $150 and a weekend if you ask me.

Mismatched? Is that how you see it? This is a lot worse that just 2 mismatched teams. Have you ever officiated a game that ran almost 2 hours and only went 4 innings? It was brutal to say the least. Is your strike zone perfect for every pitch in every level of slow pitch softball? If so, you must ump some very long games and walk a lot of batters. I'll expand a strike zone to get a batter to swing the bat. SP softball is not a pitchers game and to be honest, called or swinging strike outs should be rare. In my 20 years of playing softball, I can't remember ever swinging and missing a less than 25 MPH pitched ball that's as big as a grapefruit.

If there was a 75 minute time limit as posted in your original message, why did you let the game go 2 hours?

[tzme415]

Mike - you missed the part of the post that 4 innings were required before the 75 minute time limit went into effect.

I have played and umped the McQuade Tournament. It is fun. Hope to get back to do it again.

The games NDBlue is talking about are killers, not only on the umpires but the players too. Rather than continue the onslaught after the 2nd or 3rd inning, I might have gotten the two captains together and got them to agree to forgo the required four innings. As long as they both agreed to it, I don't think the TD would question it.

[SRW]

Originally posted by NDblue
You see, that's where you're wrong. I didn't get lazy. I was getting frustrated at the losing team not having a single decent ball player on the team and still entering the largest weekend SP softball tournament in the world. Waste of $150 and a weekend if you ask me.

Shouldn't be your problem, and shouldn't get frustrated. If a crappy team enters a tournament like that, then so be it. Maybe they entered so they could play some higher-quality ball, whatever. You're just the guy who got stuck with that game. To compromise the zone and "make up outs" because YOU'RE frustrated is not only wrong, but makes a mockery of the game, and tells me a lot about you as an umpire. You should be out there giving them your best every time, not making yourself look like a fool for changing the zone or making up outs, just so you could feel good about yourself and not be frustrated.

Mismatched? Is that how you see it? This is a lot worse that just 2 mismatched teams. Have you ever officiated a game that ran almost 2 hours and only went 4 innings? It was brutal to say the least. Is your strike zone perfect for every pitch in every level of slow pitch softball? If so, you must ump some very long games and walk a lot of batters. I'll expand a strike zone to get a batter to swing the bat. SP softball is not a pitchers game and to be honest, called or swinging strike outs should be rare. In my 20 years of playing softball, I can't remember ever swinging and missing a less than 25 MPH pitched ball that's as big as a grapefruit.

2-hour 4-inning games? Yes, we've all run into one of those. Is my zone perfect? No, probably not... but I remain CONSISTENT throughout the game. I'm not going to change the zone mid-game just because the game is lop-sided, or I feel like it to "get the game over with."

The biggest complaint about umpires is consistency throughout the game. You've proven to me that you're part of the problem, not the solution.

[NDblue]

SRW,

I'm going to let you believe what you want and not argue with you. I know I'm a good umpire and that I'm fair and CONSISTENT with my calls. My state UIC knows that I'm a good umpire and that I'm fair and CONSISTENT with my calls. Every team that plays in games that I ump know that I'm a good umpire and that I'm fair and CONSISTENT with my calls. That's all that matters, I guess. In the game that I was talking about, I was being as fair and CONSISTENT as possible but you know what, there are times that you need to bend or tweak a rule to get the job done. If widening the strike zone a balls width each side of the plate helps eleviate some embarrassment to a losing team, I'll do it. If it helps speed up a game that is taking WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too long, I'll do it. I'm not violating any rules nor am I being inconsistent. If one pitcher get my modified strike zone, so does the other. There were no complaints about how I called this game and I'm sure both teams were happy to get it over with. You weren't there so please get over yourself and your superiority complex. I didn't make a fool out of myself and I didn't make a mockery of the game.

As far as talking to both team captains about ending the game early, I personally would not feel comfortable doing it. I would get ticked at an ump that asked me to forfiet any part of a game because we were at that time getting beat up. I've played in games where the team that was getting trounced made a comback and won. I've been on both sides. I don't feel that could have happened in this game.

[Edited by NDblue on Aug 1st, 2005 at 01:04 PM]

[gsf23]

Originally posted by NDblue
SRW,

I'm going to let you believe what you want and not argue with you. I know I'm a good umpire and that I'm fair and CONSISTENT with my calls. My state UIC knows that I'm a good umpire and that I'm fair and CONSISTENT with my calls. Every team that plays in games that I ump know that I'm a good umpire and that I'm fair and CONSISTENT with my calls. That's all that matters, I guess. In the game that I was talking about, I was being as fair and CONSISTENT as possible but you know what, there are times that you need to bend or tweak a rule to get the job done. If widening the strike zone a balls width each side of the plate helps eleviate some embarrassment to a losing team, I'll do it. If it helps speed up a game that is taking WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too long, I'll do it. I'm not violating any rules nor am I being inconsistent. If one pitcher get my modified strike zone, so does the other. There were no complaints about how I called this game and I'm sure both teams were happy to get it over with. You weren't there so please get over yourself and your superiority complex. I didn't make a fool out of myself and I didn't make a mockery of the game.

As far as talking to both team captains about ending the game early, I personally would not feel comfortable doing it. I would get ticked at an ump that asked me to forfiet any part of a game because we were at that time getting beat up. I've played in games where the team that was getting trounced made a comback and won. I've been on both sides. I don't feel that could have happened in this game.

[Edited by NDblue on Aug 1st, 2005 at 01:04 PM]

Why don't you just call the big zone right from the beginning of the game?

[SRW]

Originally posted by NDblue
In the game that I was talking about, I was being as fair and CONSISTENT as possible but you know what, there are times that you need to bend or tweak a rule to get the job done. If widening the strike zone a balls width each side of the plate helps eleviate some embarrassment to a losing team, I'll do it. If it helps speed up a game that is taking WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too long, I'll do it. I'm not violating any rules nor am I being inconsistent.

Sure you're being inconsistent...Inconsistent comparing your zone from the first pitch to the last pitch.

And what do you care about a team's embarrassment factor? They're adults, they can handle it.

[mcrowder]

Umpired in one league that used the 20 after 2 rule, but also allowed the team behind by 20 or more to bat until 1 out was recorded AFTER every batter got to bat. (So, using CBO, with 12 batters, if after 2 innings it was 20-0, and the losing team had not gotten a runner on base, batters 7-12 would then bat in the top of the third and then B1 would bat - after B12 batted, the team ahead had to record an additional out (they still needed the 3 outs to end the top of the 3rd). League even said that if that team managed to score 20 in the top of the 3rd, they lost due to the 2nd inning run rule--- this did encourage the winning team to put in a lesser pitcher or play their weaker players in the field.

[argodad]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SRW

Sounds like you got lazy. An umpire should NEVER compromize the strike zone, or "make up outs" just because the teams are mis-matched.

Never say "never." There are times when a wider zone and finding an out are the right thing to do.

Our Florida HS run ahead rule is 15 after 5. You've got to complete five innings (or 4.5 if the home team ....). I'm BU in a mismatched game with the weak team at home. No lights. My partner (bless him) has had a bigger-than-usual zone all day. It's 21-0 heading into the top of the fifth. We're quickly losing daylight. We get two quick outs. Looking OK. Suddenly the pitching and defense gets even worse. Walks and errors make it 29-0 with the bases loaded. On a 2-0 pitch I call "No pitch. Runner left second early." Both coaches nod. We go 3-up-3-down in the bottom of the fifth. Ball game.

Sure, my partner could have called his "normal" zone, and we could have stayed on the field until it got too dark to see. Outcome -- the teams and umpires would have to figure out when they can come back to finish a game that was suspended with a score of 29-0.

I think we did the right thing.

[scottk_61]

Originally posted by argodad


Our Florida HS run ahead rule is 15 after 5. You've got to complete five innings (or 4.5 if the home team ....). [/B]

Try 10 after 5 unless your school district is really trying to stretch things out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by tzme415
Mike - you missed the part of the post that 4 innings were required before the 75 minute time limit went into effect.

You are correct, I missed that. The post makes more sense now. Then again, why bother with a time limit if you are going to require a certain number of innings?

Sometimes I wonder what TD's dream about, now I know

[tzme415]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

You are correct, I missed that. The post makes more sense now. Then again, why bother with a time limit if you are going to require a certain number of innings?

Sometimes I wonder what TD's dream about, now I know

I guess they didn't think that there was much chance of a four inning game lasting more than 75 minutes, but there are always exceptions.