Block or no block

Coach12 · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 04, 2005, 03:22pm

Here is one I would like to have a Blue view on.

10U Fast-Pitch girls tournament.
We were the out-of-towners.
We had the lead by 4 runs in the 3rd inning.

1. I had a runner on first wanting to steal so bad she could not stand still and we felt the catcher's power was weak.
2. The defense and their coach knew my runner was ready to go and she was fast. I had given her and my 1st base coach the go signal.
3. Prior to the pitch their 2nd baseman began to fade back to cover a throw-down.
4. On the throw-down the short-stop came over to take it but the throw was short, although in line. Being young and inexperienced she ran up to take the throw rather than holding her ground at the base.
5. For some reason the 2nd baseman charged back into the infield and blocked (I belive accidently) my runner allowing the short-stop time to come over and make the tag in the middle of the wreck. Neither my runner nor the 2nd baseman fell down.
6. My runner was called out by the field official so I appealed the call to the plate umpire. He said he didn't see the play. whuh?

note: my runner was not close enough to slide (maybe 12-15 feet away) and the 2nd baseman came into her path quickly and unexpectedly.
I just let it go for lack need to push it and we won anyway.

???Hey Blue...was my runner blocked or just out???

whiskers_ump · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 04, 2005, 04:29pm

Coach,

Sounds like probably OBS. However, most of these situtations are HBTB plays.

No ball, blocking of base = OBS.

U of M Sam · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 04, 2005, 04:51pm

Sounds like OBS-although would need to see play.
Did your runner change her path (slow down, stop, pause etc.) on her way to 2nd? OBS if fielder does not have ball waiting to make a play and runner changes path.

JEL · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 04, 2005, 05:42pm

As glen said it is a HTBT play, but it sure sounds like OBS by F4 to me.

Question about #6, Why did you appeal to the PU?

First, you can not appeal an apparent OBS, you could tell the one making the call you saw F4 obstruct your runner, and would HE ask the PU if he saw OBS. This is of course after you have asked for, and been granted time, and you walk out to the BU for a one to one conversation (no yelling across the infield, that's no good).

The BU may or may not ask for help, but you will have a better chance if you approach him in a professional manner to plead your case. If BU asks for help from the PU, he may or may not change his call, you will have to play on from there. You did say you won, so this play was not pivotal.

You also noted you were the "out-of-towners". I hope there were no "Home Cooking" comments coming from the stands! I called a state BB tourney last week, and heard more "Home Cooking" comments than I have ever heard. I, and my partner were 60+ miles from home! I also hope you don't believe that the umpiring crew was biased towards the home team. They may also have been "out-of-towners"!

It sounds as if you did recieve a bad call though, we do miss some. How was the rest of the game? (officiating)

Coach12 · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 04, 2005, 05:55pm

"Replay to U of M Sam"

Thanks for the input Sam.

No, the runner did not appear to even see F4 re-enter the infield nor did F4 appear to see my runner. The path was straight and the crash was solid.

F4 did not have the ball nor was she making a play.
The ball was in the hands of F6 who made the catch and the tag on her own.

It was a simple event of three young girls scrambling in a very small area.

Only the call was a problem for me.

Coach12

Coach12 · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 04, 2005, 06:14pm

"Reply to JEL.

Thanks for the input JEL.

In answer to yout question about #6.
At the time the out was called, I called time.
A got the BU's attention and called for a conference.
The BU, who was a 14-year-old-girl turned and walked away.
At that time I approached the PU and ask if he saw the play.

The approach was by the book as many an umpire in my area will vouch for my on-field protocal.

As for the conduct of my team and followers. They were good.
Of course you always have at least one parent who will give Blue the blues but I try to keep them in check. I have a standing rule. If I raise my hand to the "Peanut gallery" on my side it means that's enough. I have been known to bench a player because of mom or dad's mouth. It don't do much to make me popular but it does improve my other parent's behavior.

I guess what I am looking for in an answer would be, is a fielder who gets in the way of a runner, and is not attempting a play an obstruction? I just feel like she is.

Thanks again.

SF · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 04, 2005, 06:59pm

Obstruction can be a tricky call, and without having seen all the circumstances of a play, it's hard to say "That is obstruction" over an internet message board. With that caveat, though...

Basically, if a fielder impedes a runner's progress and is not making a play, yes, it is obstruction.

I just finished a 16U/14U tournament this weekend. I had a coach come onto the field to discuss a call and he left mumbling about "all these 14 year old kids they're letting umpire who don't have any experience... they just don't understand." Well, I'm may be younger but I'm not 14, I do understand, and I actually had more experience than either of my older partners. In umpiring, youth is a killer. I'm just saying, you shouldn't take a younger looking umpire and assume you won't get a good game. This isn't always the case.

jack2005 · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 04, 2005, 08:20pm

I don't respond much, but this scenario is one of my favorites.

My call, by the way you explained it would be fielder obstruction. ASA rule 8 section 5: Runners are entitled to advance without liability to be put out. Para. B states "that a fielder not in possession of the ball" nor, and here's the key point "fielding a BATTED BALL.

And since this was a steal attempt, F4 was clearly obstructing the runner for the fact she did not have the ball by the way you explained the situation. Now whether F4 obstructed the runner intentionally or not, has no bearing in this situation. R1 should have been safe.

I've read some of these other respones. And what a bunch of hogwash they are. "Replies like what about this and what about that, and I would have had to been there to see the situation. Did the runner stop, or change direction."
Answer the question with the scenario given. Thank You.

U of M Sam · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 04, 2005, 09:30pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Coach12
"Replay to U of M Sam"

Thanks for the input Sam.

No, the runner did not appear to even see F4 re-enter the infield nor did F4 appear to see my runner. The path was straight and the crash was solid.

F4 did not have the ball nor was she making a play.
The ball was in the hands of F6 who made the catch and the tag on her own.

It was a simple event of three young girls scrambling in a very small area.

Only the call was a problem for me.

Coach12

Coach12:
OBS-Delayed dead ball-runner protected to 2nd base-no out.
Also, I suggest if you "appeal" (question) a call, request "time" (when the play is done) and ask the umpire that made the call (in this case, the BU) if he could ask his ump partner for help.
Sam

[Edited by U of M Sam on Jul 4th, 2005 at 10:36 PM]

U of M Sam · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 04, 2005, 09:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by jack2005
I don't respond much, but this scenario is one of my favorites.

My call, by the way you explained it would be fielder obstruction. ASA rule 8 section 5: Runners are entitled to advance without liability to be put out. Para. B states "that a fielder not in possession of the ball" nor, and here's the key point "fielding a BATTED BALL.

I've read some of these other respones. And what a bunch of hogwash they are. "Replies like what about this and what about that, and I would have had to been there to see the situation. Did the runner stop, or change direction."
Answer the question with the scenario given. Thank You.

jack2005:
Your "hogwash" comment was interesting. Only trying to get more info.
By the way (with intended humor) is there such a thing as "fielder interference" since you specified "fielder obstruction"? Obstruction (defense) / Interference (offense)

Thank you

whiskers_ump · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 04, 2005, 10:39pm

Quote:

Originally posted by jack2005
I don't respond much, but this scenario is one of my favorites.

My call, by the way you explained it would be fielder obstruction. ASA rule 8 section 5: Runners are entitled to advance without liability to be put out. Para. B states "that a fielder not in possession of the ball" nor, and here's the key point "fielding a BATTED BALL.

And since this was a steal attempt, F4 was clearly obstructing the runner for the fact she did not have the ball by the way you explained the situation. Now whether F4 obstructed the runner intentionally or not, has no bearing in this situation. R1 should have been safe.

I've read some of these other respones. And what a bunch of hogwash they are. "Replies like what about this and what about that, and I would have had to been there to see the situation. Did the runner stop, or change direction."
Answer the question with the scenario given. Thank You.

Oh, you figure that without being there and seeing the runners reaction or
no reaction, that you would be qualified to make the OBS call? Interesting.

debeau · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 05, 2005, 12:12am

As far as I am aware in ASA or ISF obstruction only occurs when a runner is impeded in any way .
If the runner kept on running , did not slow down move from her path or hesitate then there is no obstruction .
Just because a fielder was there does not mean there was obstruction .

Whiskers-ump is right in that you had to be there to see the runners reaction and the circumstances .

If the runner was blocked by f4 from touching the base then there was obst

JEL · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 05, 2005, 07:29am

Has anyone ever had a base coach wanting OBS on a SS who is set up on the baseline......before a pitch is even thrown?

Obstruction is something which MUST be seen to be called.

3afan · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 05, 2005, 07:34am

easy OBS ....

3afan · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 05, 2005, 07:39am

Quote:

Originally posted by JEL
Has anyone ever had a base coach wanting OBS on a SS who is set up on the baseline......before a pitch is even thrown?

Obstruction is something which MUST be seen to be called.

yes - especially with the younger girls ..... also you have the base coach who yells "hey blue, SS is in the base line, you gotta move her!" those can be "fun" ......