Odd reaction to an OBS call

[Dakota]

Last evening, 14U ASA fast pitch game. Single umpire (me).

Batter hits a fly ball into right field which falls uncaught. F9 is chasing it down as BR attempts to round 1B and gets tangled up wtih F3 who is standing on the base.

I signal DDB and verbalize OBSTRUCTION.

BR turns to return to 1B. 1B coach tells her "he's giving you 2nd." BR touches 1B, my arm drops. Coach again says, "He gave you 2B." Ball is into the infield by now (F4 has it). BR trots on to 2B while F4 casually tosses the ball to F1.

[SRW]

So I assume the BR made it safely to 2B after you dropped your arm...? You originally had her protected to 2B, then not?

[CecilOne]

In spite if my thinking you are married, I'll comment.
BR/R safe at 2nd, F4 benched, not sure of question.

If the question is whether the BR/R can advance, why not? You said nothing about calling dead ball or time, so regardless of your judgement about the effect of OBS, she can run as long as she starts before F1 has the ball in the circle. I know you know that, but others are reading.

If she did not run to 2nd, then it's a question of where you judged she would have reached w/o OBS, probably 2nd from your description, so if she stayed at 1st - award 2nd. I know you know that, but others are reading.

As to F4, it actually made no difference unless you would have kept her at 1st if she didn't run to 2nd; but either way you said nothing so F4 should have tried for an out (assuming no runner on 3rd).

[AtlUmpSteve]

As I read Dakota's post, I read he wasn't awarding 2B; he dropped his arm when BR retouched 1B. However, BR couldn't be out trying for 2B (can't be out between the two bases (1B and 2B), so, no harm in trying for 2B. Still, no reason for F4 to give it up; if s/he puts out BR, dead ball and 1B awarded, anyway.

[3afan]

same thing happened to me in a JV game - i signaled and verbalized it - everyone just looked at me, the BR walkd to 3rd base & the SS tossed the ball to the P. I just looked at my partner and shrugged as he was laughing ....

[IRISHMAFIA]

I keep telling you guys and gals that the verbal call will confuse the players and interupt play.

[SRW]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
I keep telling you guys and gals that the verbal call will confuse the players and interupt play.

I agree with that, however, POE#36 says we're supposed to declare obstruction and signal a delayed dead ball.

Personally, I don't vocalize it for the reason you stated.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
I keep telling you guys and gals that the verbal call will confuse the players and interupt play.

That's the intent ...... in BASEBALL.

They verbalize as loud as they can balks, obstructions, and any other delayed calls, so that play will stop, and their awards are simplified.

Hopefully, that phrase in the POE that "obstruction will be declared" will be addressed by the new regime. It seems to me that anything that is intended to be verbalized should be in quotations, ie, "dead ball", or "illegal", and that would make the intent clear.

[Dakota]

There wasn't any question - just a story about an odd reaction by both teams.

The award would have been 1B, because the ball wasn't that deep into RF and was returned fairly quickly. But, that wasn't the reason I dropped my arm.

As a single umpire, I was inside the diamond about half way to 1B, facing RF, so my DDB signal was pointing toward 2B. When the coach first said what she did, I dropped the arm thinking she was perhaps mistaking the DDB signal as me pointing to award a base. (My mask was in my left hand).

I doubt the verbalization caused this reaction, but you never know.

Certainly, the BR was able to try for 2B, since it was a live ball. So was the defense able to try for the out, they wouldn't have gotten the out, but they would have kept the runner at first.

It just seemed like both teams bought the 1B coach's statement that I was "giving" the BR 2B. BR trotting casually to 2B; defense just watching it happen.

If there is a question here anywhere, it would be, ...

When the 1B coach stated I was "giving" the runner 2B, I just chose to drop the arm and let the play complete. Any comments on that? Should I have said anything?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally posted by Dakota
When the 1B coach stated I was "giving" the runner 2B, I just chose to drop the arm and let the play complete. Any comments on that? Should I have said anything?

I think not; at least not during live ball play. I might have considered a conversation after the play, depending on the level of 14U play (obviously not very high, since all thei happened). It might have been a valid opportunity to educate two teams and sets of coaches.

[Andy]

I had a similar play to Tom's some time ago, in a HS varstiy game. Obstruction called on F3 after a bad throw that pulls her off the bag, BR stops at first base. As F3 retrieves the ball and is throwing it back to the pitcher, the first base coach tells the BR..."he called obstruction, you get to go to second." The BR casually trots toward second base as the ball is in the air on the way back to the pitcher, the pitcher catches the ball and just watches the BR trot to second.

Here comes the defensive coach wanting to know what's going on...I tell her that the ball was still live and that the pitcher did not have possession of the ball in the circle when the BR left first base, the BR's advancement stands.

When the inning is over, I tell the first base coach that obstruction does not carry an automatic award...she gives me a look and says..."it doesn't?" About that time, her head coach comes and gets her to explain the rule and applicable awards correctly.

Not to hijack the post...but what if the pitcher had the ball in the circle when the BR left first base? Would the DDB from the obstruction be considered over since the play has ended? Is the BR now subject ot being called out on the lookback rule?

[Edited by Andy on Jul 1st, 2005 at 04:00 PM]

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally posted by Andy
Not to hijack the post...but what if the pitcher had the ball in the circle when the BR left first base? Would the DDB from the obstruction be considered over since the play has ended? Is the BR now subject ot being called out on the lookback rule?

Andy, I don't know that there is a definitive answer to that one; it isn't really covered in rule book or case book.

We do know that certain baserunning violations are still enforced on obstructed runners; missed bases, bases left early, and interference are still enforced. In my opinion (and it is nothing more than that, in this case), consistency would make it appropriate to enforce the lookback rule violation, too. The obstruction certainly didn't create the LBR violation; poor coaching did.

In lower level and rec ball, I may decide I called a dead ball to make the base award. In tournament play, I call the LBR out.

[emaxos]

Technically, would the out be based on the LBR or for leaving before the pitch was released?
I always saw the LBR as a sitch that occurred when a runner was off base already and failed to return/advance immediately.