Coachism's Revisited ... And Umps too

[sprivitor]

Hi folks-

Back from some tournaments where I was coaching and for the world of me I couldn't convince anyone of these coachisms.. I was hoping you could advise so that I can post this link for all those who don't believe the rules.

1. Ball thrown to batter, batter not in strike zone and not swinging the bat, hits her in the hands. In USSSA tournament, blue says "foul" and told me "end of discussion, it's simply a foul, I'm not saying if it hit her hands or not". So, batter took a strike. What's your take on it?

2. Batter puts bat in strike zone showing bunt and leaves it there, does not offer at the thrown ball, blue in a Dixie Belles tournament calls it "Strike" even though the ball was rolling across the plate. What's your take on it?

3. And a final question for me. In USSSA, if you have no subs to become a courtesy runner for your pitcher or catcher, can the last out be used? Blues told me "no" because different from all other organizations... But only reason I ask... This is the same blues who think the hands are part of the bat.

Thanks folks!

[Blu_IN]

1. Umpire didn't see it or hear it right. Or he simply doesn't know the rule. Shrug, it happens.

2. I'm sure this will get some people on these boards hot. As far as I am concerned, if you leave that bat over the plate, you are getting a strike called on you period. Tuff one though with the bloody ball rolling in.

3. Shrug, don't know U-trip rules. Last out works in NSA though.

[JEL]

1. Wrong call and explanation (unless ball hit bat then hands and that is strictly umpire judgement).

2. In ASA not technically a strike. Again, it is judgement as to whether an attempt was made.

3. U-trip does not use the "last out CR" I believe NSA is the only org that allows that. Some tournies may modify that and allow the CR to be the last out if you are batting your entire roster. I have seen that in ASA and USSSA tournies.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Blu_IN
As far as I am concerned, if you leave that bat over the plate, you are getting a strike called on you period. Tuff one though with the bloody ball rolling in.

I shouldn't be as far as you are concerned, it should be as far as the rule book is concerned. Rule books differ. ASA, this is not a strike unless an actual attempt is made. Merely holding the bat stationary over the plate is not an attempt. (ASA POE 10). AFA, it is a strike if the bat is not pulled back. (AFA 10.7-b-1) I don't know about Dixie.

[Bandit]

Blu_IN......2. "I'm sure this will get some people on these boards hot. As far as I am concerned, if you leave that bat over the plate, you are getting a strike called on you period."

What organization in Indiana teachs that a bat left over the plate during a pitch should be called a strike ? How do you justify this call ? If the batter lifts the bat off of her shoulder but does not actually swing....do you call that a strike also ?

What is your definition of a "check" swing ? Do you believe there to be such a thing ?

[blue_ape]

Originally posted by Blu_IN

2. I'm sure this will get some people on these boards hot. As far as I am concerned, if you leave that bat over the plate, you are getting a strike called on you period. Tuff one though with the bloody ball rolling in.

[/B]

If you are doing ASA or NSA games and always call this a strike, you are causing more problems for other blues than "the hands are part of the bat" morons. This is the #1 source of rule questions I've had during games, and I know that it is because too many umps call it wrong.

[SeattleMetroUmp]

"Hey Blue next time you go to a sporting goods store, buy a bat that comes with hands on it" and see what he says. Turn the tables on him. I always love that one, "the hands are part of the bat!!"


Mike

[MrRabbit]

Originally posted by JEL

3. U-trip does not use the "last out CR" I believe NSA is the only org that allows that. Some tournies may modify that and allow the CR to be the last out if you are batting your entire roster. I have seen that in ASA and USSSA tournies.

[/B]

Using the term last out for a courtesy runner is wrong. It is the last person to completed their turn at bat if the are batting the line up and allowing CR's in ASA and should be everywhere else.

This was how it was explained to me.

If you use last out you could end up with a on deck batter on base and now you got real problems. # 5 batter is the last out, the team bats around to the # 3 you gets a hit single, you put number 5 in to CR, # 4 gets a single now you have # 5 on second, # 4 on first and # 5 due up, now what?

Rabbit

[NSABlue]

If you use last out you could end up with a on deck batter on base and now you got real problems. # 5 batter is the last out, the team bats around to the # 3 you gets a hit single, you put number 5 in to CR, # 4 gets a single now you have # 5 on second, # 4 on first and # 5 due up, now what?

Rabbit [/B][/QUOTE]

Rabbit,
To answer your question by rule (NSA), you would skip the batter who is on base and there is no penalty applied. You merely skip that batter. It is a remote possibility that it may happen but I've been working NSA for about 6 years and have never heard of it happening. Also remember, the CR does not have to be the last out, it can also be any other player not currently in the game.

Rule 7, sec 2d - No base runner shall be removed from the base he/she is occupying to bat in his/her proper place. He/She merely misses his/her turn at bat with no penalty.
the batter following him/her in the order becomes the legal batter.

[Edited by NSABlue on Jun 27th, 2005 at 06:58 PM]

[Dakota]

Originally posted by MrRabbit
It is the last person to completed their turn at bat if the are batting the line up and allowing CR's in ASA and should be everywhere else.

Rabbit,

I don't understand this reference to ASA. Can you explain what you mean?