Illegal pitch or not?

[DaveASA/FED]

Would you rule this illegal or not? Pitcher standing on pitching plate right foot on plate, left foot with toe 1-3" behind plate. As she is getting ready to pitch she brings the toe into contact with the plate and IMO is totally legal from there. The timing of this is very close to when she is bringing her hands together to start the pitch. She is not pushing off from behind the plate, or stepping back, she even stops as she gets the foot to the plate. Would you call this illegal??

[mo99]

Not sure what code you are playing under and assuming this is fast pitch:

ASA and NCAA: Illegal pitch
NFHS: Legal

Jeff
NCAA Umpire
NFHS Umpire
ASA Umpire

[Blu_IN]

If there is a momentary pause from when she brings her back foot on and her hands come together, I would let it slide. Of course, I have never been a big stickler when it comes to illegal pitches. As long as she isn't quick pitching because of this motion, I don't see it as a big concern.

In a game situation if I saw this, I would let it slide the first inning and then go talk to the coach between innings and ask that she bring the foot on a pause a tad more before bringing the hands together.

[mo99]

In ASA and NCAA both feet must be in contact with the pitching plate prior to taking or simulating taking the signal.In lower levels of play,I would mention this infraction to the pitcher and coach after the first inning.In College and ASA Advanced play,the umpire better be calling this an illegal pitch.Again in NFHS this is perfectly legal.

Jeff
NCAA Umpire
NFHS Umpire
ASA Umpire

[NSABlue]

Speaking NSA, this would be illegal. Both feet must be in contact with the pitchers plate at the start of the pitch and the pitcher can not step back.

[SRW]

Does being 1" to 3" behind the plate with one foot give the pitcher any advantage over the batter?

[Steve M]

SRW,
The advantage vs no advantage is not a good question to ask. The pitch is either legal or it is illegal - regardless of whether the pitcher gains an advantage. And also consider - if it did not add an advantage in the pitcher's mind, why would the pitcher do that?

[Dakota]

Originally posted by DaveASA/FED
Would you rule this illegal or not? Pitcher standing on pitching plate right foot on plate, left foot with toe 1-3" behind plate. As she is getting ready to pitch she brings the toe into contact with the plate and IMO is totally legal from there. The timing of this is very close to when she is bringing her hands together to start the pitch. She is not pushing off from behind the plate, or stepping back, she even stops as she gets the foot to the plate. Would you call this illegal??

This is illegal in ASA. She must have both feet in contact with the plate with the hands separated. While in this position, she must take, or simulate taking, the signals from the catcher. Both feet must remain in contact with the pitching plate at all times prior to the forward step. ASA 6-1-C-1, 6-1-D, 6-1-E-2.

[Blu_IN]

Originally posted by Steve M
SRW,
The advantage vs no advantage is not a good question to ask. The pitch is either legal or it is illegal - regardless of whether the pitcher gains an advantage. And also consider - if it did not add an advantage in the pitcher's mind, why would the pitcher do that?

I think that is an excellent question to ask! Memorizing the book and applying the rules is only half the battle. You need to know the meaning of the rule, you need to know why it exists.

In this case, she does bring her feet on the pitcher's plate prior to beginning her delivery. Starting with your hands separated and simulating a signal from the catcher are all things developed to create pauses to prevent quick pitching.

[Steve M]

"I think that is an excellent question to ask! "

Then we're going to disagree, Blu. You go on to say "in this case, ..." and there we agree, however - advantage/no advantage does not appear to come into consideration and (you already know that I think it shouldn't).

[mcrowder]

Blu - some other set of people (the esteemed rulemakers) have already determined what they consider to be advantage/disadvantage. We don't have to do that. If we do, we end up with different rules being called at different times by different umps. One thing that irks coaches (and fans, players) the most is inconsistency in umpiring. You are fostering it with that comment on pitching rules.

[SRW]

The reason I asked is because of the difference in the pitching mechanic of ASA vs. NFHS. One association determines it to be an advantage, the other doesn't.

Yes, calling the mechanic by the book is what we should do. Understanding why the rule exists is another.