Technical out in ASA?

ToledoCYOBlue · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 10:15am

This sitch came up at an adult co-ed game, ASA rules.

R1 on second, two outs. B1 gets a base hit to right. Throw comes in to second. F4 calls "time," but R1 never hesitates around third and comes around to score (no idea why the throw wasn't made to F2).

Anyway, F3 (team captain) complains vigorously to the BU that the defense had requested "time," and that the play should have been stopped. He obviously doesn't know that rule, but apparently somewhere in the conversation, F3 says "That's F***ing stupid, Blue." BU calls a technical out for using the F-word, and says offense now has only one out, rather than two.

I didn't mind this at all, as my team was at-bat, and we went on to score three more runs with two outs. But is this rule legitimate? Reference please?

Love this board...many vets willing to share their knowledge with relatives newbies like myself. Thanks.

Charlie

mcrowder · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 10:21am

Unless you have some sort of bizarre local rule around this, the BU was wrong. There no rule like this in ASA (or any other org I've ever worked or read about) at all.

Dakota · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 10:43am

Here we have a "family atmosphere" rule that would result in something similar. The defense would be assessed one out in their next at bat, so they would come to bat with one out already in the book. The player would also be ejected.

SRW · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 10:51am

We don't give an advantage to the offense (i.e.: take away an out like your sitch suggested), but rather penalize the defense. Our area has what we call the Casual Profanity Rule:

First offense is a warning to the team.
Second offense is an out to the offending team's next at-bat.
Third offense is an out to the offending team's next at-bat.
Fourth... fifth... etc.

It makes the team responsible for the mouth of their players. Might even DQ them, if it got bad enough. We wouldn't eject them unless it was flagrant.

Can get rather interesting when you've got a player cussing up a storm, and you're just standing there calling outs... 2 innings later they get to bat. (No, I haven't done that, bkbjones and StreamDoc

)

BretMan · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 11:26am

This is not an ASA rule. Rather, it is a local league rule.

Leagues are free to make-up any rule they wish. I don't have a problem with that- hey, it's their league- even if some of the local rules can be on the strange side.

Regardless of what local rules you devise, it is imperative that they appear in writing and are readily available to the league participants.

Our city softball leagues (by the way, just a "few" miles south of you, in Columbus) have adopted a "profanity rule". It works about like what some of the other's have posted.

If called on an offensive player, the penalty in an out. If called on a defensive player, the out is accessed when his team comes up next to bat.

#6 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 12:11pm

We have that kind of rule here in Omaha that Seattle has. It's also used at the state tournaments here in Nebraska. We don't have to issue the warning, can do it as part of the pregame conference.

SRW · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 12:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
We have that kind of rule here in Omaha that Seattle has. It's also used at the state tournaments here in Nebraska. We don't have to issue the warning, can do it as part of the pregame conference.

We've done that too... either way. I usually mention it at the pre-game, and tell them that they'll get one warning, but the next is an out.

Dakota · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 01:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
We have that kind of rule here in Omaha that Seattle has. It's also used at the state tournaments here in Nebraska. We don't have to issue the warning, can do it as part of the pregame conference.

I have no issue with the "don't have to issue the warning" part, unless the reason you don't is the pregame. I do not think pregame "warnings" should ever be used as an official warning. They are reminders or requests, but not warnings.

IRISHMAFIA · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 03:51pm

I have better things to do than be the language police.

Will I ask a player/coach to keep it down? Absolutely. Will I start assessing penalties if not directed at a participant in the game? Nope.

Such rules are too subjective. Everyone has their own little list. One game it is a penalty for words #2 & #3, but not in the next game. However, #1 & #5 will get you in trouble there. Even George Carlin couldn't figure out a standard. It also depends where you are standing in country as to what is or is not appropriate. I've heard people complain that a player said, "hell".

Give me a break! This is a competitive sport, even in the recreational leagues and you are going to hear things that may or may not be appropriate, but who I am to impose my standards on others? Nothing new with my opinion. I've held the same one since day one and it will not be changing anytime soon.

shipwreck · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 08:34pm

I know that Mike wouldn't like it but Nebraska has a casual profanity rule which allows the umpire to access an out if there is profanity that is not directed at someone in particular. I have never had to invoke this rule but I like to have it in place in case I need it. The field isn't a bar scene and with children around the field, there isn't any place for these kinds of words. JMHO Dave

bkbjones · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 09:43pm

I'm not interested in being the Language Police, but it's a rule here in most of our leagues and I will damned well enforce it as instructed by my UIC.

Generally, it covers:
1. The Love Act
2. Any form of human waste
3. Any orifices from whence such waste may flow

Had to enforce it the other night for #2 right after he connected for a can of corn fly ball, as it was said loud enough for folks in Miami to hear it, much less the women and children in the stands. And of course he thought I was full of #2, but he wasn't nearly as mad as his teammate who was now an automatic out because of his teammate's actions. His teammate wasn't mad at me: he was mad at his teammate.

IRISHMAFIA · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 10:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bkbjones
I'm not interested in being the Language Police, but it's a rule here in most of our leagues and I will damned well enforce it as instructed by my UIC.

Generally, it covers:
1. The Love Act
2. Any form of human waste
3. Any orifices from whence such waste may flow

Had to enforce it the other night for #2 right after he connected for a can of corn fly ball, as it was said loud enough for folks in Miami to hear it, much less the women and children in the stands. And of course he thought I was full of #2, but he wasn't nearly as mad as his teammate who was now an automatic out because of his teammate's actions. His teammate wasn't mad at me: he was mad at his teammate.

So, #1 it includes:

Screwing, screw, blow me, boffing, boinking, freaking, humping, frickin', etc.

#2 would be ****, dung, poop, crap, etc.

#3 would be ***, dick, penis, etc.

You are correct. You should enforce these "rules" if you believe what you heard met the criteria. My response would be, "hear what?"

Dakota · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 11:01pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bkbjones
I'm not interested in being the Language Police, but it's a rule here in most of our leagues and I will damned well enforce it as instructed by my UIC.

Cute. Nice touch.

I do agree that the list is subjective and variable, but in my case (JO games) I have no problem using my personal judgment. And have had no problems from coaches disagreeing with my judgment.

But, I've chosen to warn coaches about the existance of the rule when they slip up, rather than go directly to assessing outs. Never had a coach slip up twice. I've never had the need to do anything regarding players.