obstruction from another board

[Little Jimmy]

I was reading another board that some of you frequent and read something that confused me. I got the idea that some of you would not call obstruction in the following play. Runner coming home. Catcher drops to block homeplate(without ball). Runner DOESN'T alter path. She simply slides into catcher who stops her progress to the plate. JUST BEFORE CONTACT, catcher gets possession of ball, then contact occurs, then tag is put down.

So catcher is in the path of the runner. I'm not sure if runner has slowed down a little or not. All I know is as runner goes into her slide and catcher is blocking her way I'm thinking I've got obstruction, giving any benefit of the doubt to the runner. The fact that the catcher catches the ball a fraction of a second before contact seems to go against the recent emphasis.


Given the circumstances first stated, would you call obstruction?

[mcrowder]

The crux of the problem here:

"Runner DOESN'T alter path" vs. "I'm not sure if runner has slowed down a little or not."

As umpire, this is your decision. Did the runner alter his/her path ("alter" includes slowing) at all? If so, OBS. If not - did contact with the player without the ball slow the runner (thus "altering" the path of the runner while not in possession of the ball)? In this case, no - contact with the runner happened AFTER possession of the ball. No OBS.

[CecilOne]

Judgement is the key. If the presence of the catcher/fielder was why the runner slid short of the plate or why the runner slid at all, or why she slid sooner than expected or any other reason that an umpires judges the runner was impeded, it's obstruction.

Given the case as stated, no obstruction as long as "Runner DOESN'T alter path" and "not sure if runner has slowed down a little or not" and "BEFORE CONTACT, catcher gets possession "

[chuck chopper]

I have had this happen several times at bases mostly this year. Try explaining to the coaches that we had Obstruction even when the contact happened while the fielder has the ball !.

[IRISHMAFIA]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Little Jimmy
I was reading another board that some of you frequent and read something that confused me.

[quote]

What? We don't have enough OBS questions here?

I got the idea that some of you would not call obstruction in the following play. Runner coming home. Catcher drops to block homeplate(without ball). Runner DOESN'T alter path. She simply slides into catcher who stops her progress to the plate. JUST BEFORE CONTACT, catcher gets possession of ball, then contact occurs, then tag is put down.

So catcher is in the path of the runner. I'm not sure if runner has slowed down a little or not. All I know is as runner goes into her slide and catcher is blocking her way I'm thinking I've got obstruction, giving any benefit of the doubt to the runner. The fact that the catcher catches the ball a fraction of a second before contact seems to go against the recent emphasis.

As noted, this is a judgment call, but isn't it amazing how little bits have been noted or assumed.

[b][quote]
Question: Given the circumstances first stated, would you call obstruction?

Answer: If you judge the runner to had not slowed or change her path, it is nothing.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Little Jimmy
I was reading another board that some of you frequent and read something that confused me. I got the idea that some of you would not call obstruction in the following play. Runner coming home. Catcher drops to block homeplate(without ball). Runner DOESN'T alter path. She simply slides into catcher who stops her progress to the plate. JUST BEFORE CONTACT, catcher gets possession of ball, then contact occurs, then tag is put down.

So catcher is in the path of the runner. I'm not sure if runner has slowed down a little or not. All I know is as runner goes into her slide and catcher is blocking her way I'm thinking I've got obstruction, giving any benefit of the doubt to the runner. The fact that the catcher catches the ball a fraction of a second before contact seems to go against the recent emphasis.


Given the circumstances first stated, would you call obstruction?

Here's the crux, Jimmy. Blocking the base without the ball is not obstruction. Impeding the progress of the runner without the ball is obstruction. If the runner was not impeded UNTIL the fielder had possession of the ball, there was no obstruction.

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

I actually had a pretty clear cut case of OBS this past weekend at a 16U PONY Tourney:

Throw over to 3rd to force a runner gets away from 3B,both 3B and C go chasing after the ball. The P,meanwhile had started to go chasing after the ball,but saw the baserunner turning for home...so....she decides to go cover HP..running directly down the baseline..about five feet in front of the baserunner the whole way-no question in MY mind that was impeding the runner there...THEN the P seals the deal by doing a perfect spin...thereby blocking the plate w/o the ball forcing the BR to make a short short slide..the arrival sequence at home being something like: P..then BR and ball a millisecond after the BR...I had NO problem calling OBS,and awarding home....the defensive coach was another matter,however...

[CecilOne]

Sound like OBS when
"in front of the baserunner the whole way-no question in MY mind that was impeding the runner there"
or
"P..then BR and ball a millisecond after the BR",
but remember that PONY still has "about to receive".

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally posted by CecilOne
Sound like OBS when
"in front of the baserunner the whole way-no question in MY mind that was impeding the runner there"
or
"P..then BR and ball a millisecond after the BR",
but remember that PONY still has "about to receive".

No they don't....POE #28-Obstruction in the PONY rule book is IDENTICAL to ASA POE #36-Obstruction-even including the point that coaches must teach a new way of covering the bases. The fact that the P had blocked HP was a moot point anyways in my judgement-that 'rolling impedence' halfway down the baseline was enough for me!

And also....the first thing the clueless coach (and fans of course)bring up is: (drumroll...) "She didnt touch her Blue!!!" Oh well.....

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally posted by CecilOne
Sound like OBS when
"in front of the baserunner the whole way-no question in MY mind that was impeding the runner there"
or
"P..then BR and ball a millisecond after the BR",
but remember that PONY still has "about to receive".

No they don't....POE #28-Obstruction in the PONY rule book is IDENTICAL to ASA POE #36-Obstruction-even including the point that coaches must teach a new way of covering the bases. The fact that the P had blocked HP was a moot point anyways in my judgement-that 'rolling impedence' halfway down the baseline was enough for me!

And also....the first thing the clueless coach (and fans of course)bring up is: (drumroll...) "She didnt touch her Blue!!!" Oh well.....

[MA Softball Ump]

o.k., fellow Blues!

Let's get YOUR rulings on these two situations (please note wether you are calling FED, ASA, PONY, NSA or....). Let me know if YOUR Chief UIC has put out written info on either of these also.

How would you rule on each of these two situations:

1. On the pitch, R1 is stealing from 1st - second. The F6 straddles second and sets to receive a throw from F2, thus forcing R1 to slide into the base. What is your call if F2 makes no attempt to pick off? How about if F2 makes an attempt, but overthrows.

2. Same situation as above, but it is a batted ball to the out field and R1 is going from 3rd - home. F2 straddles home forcing R1 to slide with or without the ball on its way to home.

Hmmm... does forcing a runner to slide = obstruction? Is the runner allowed to have full access to the plate or base to reach out with her arm to touch the base or plate?

Your thoughts, please.



[Edited by MA Softball Ump on Jun 8th, 2005 at 12:23 PM]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by MA Softball Ump

Speaking ASA for all

1. On the pitch, R1 is stealing from 1st - second. The F6 straddles second and sets to receive a throw from F2, thus forcing R1 to slide into the base. What is your call if F2 makes no attempt to pick off? How about if F2 makes an attempt, but overthrows.

That would depend on whether the action impeded the runner. I don't see how stradling a base forces a runner to slide.

2. Same situation as above, but it is a batted ball to the out field and R1 is going from 3rd - home. F2 straddles home forcing R1 to slide with or without the ball on its way to home.

Once again, why do you believe stradling the base alone forces a runner to slide?

And why is R1 in possession of the ball? Just kidding. If the defender has the ball, OBS is not a viable call.

[/B][/QUOTE]

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

No they don't....POE #28-Obstruction in the PONY rule book is IDENTICAL to ASA POE #36-Obstruction-even including the point that coaches must teach a new way of covering the bases. ... snip ...

Correct, they did change 9.5.b and POE 28, but the definition in 1-45 still says "about to receive a thrown ball".

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

.. snip ... The fact that the P had blocked HP was a moot point anyways in my judgement-that 'rolling impedence' halfway down the baseline was enough for me!
... snip ...

Glad we agree on that.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by MA Softball Ump
o.k., fellow Blues!

Let's get YOUR rulings on these two situations (please note wether you are calling FED, ASA, PONY, NSA or....). Let me know if YOUR Chief UIC has put out written info on either of these also.

How would you rule on each of these two situations:

1. On the pitch, R1 is stealing from 1st - second. The F6 straddles second and sets to receive a throw from F2, thus forcing R1 to slide into the base. What is your call if F2 makes no attempt to pick off? How about if F2 makes an attempt, but overthrows.

2. Same situation as above, but it is a batted ball to the out field and R1 is going from 3rd - home. F2 straddles home forcing R1 to slide with or without the ball on its way to home.

Hmmm... does forcing a runner to slide = obstruction? Is the runner allowed to have full access to the plate or base to reach out with her arm to touch the base or plate?

Your thoughts, please.



[Edited by MA Softball Ump on Jun 8th, 2005 at 12:23 PM]

1) While there is good theory that some ways of straddling a base or other positioning take away some of the runner's options, it has to be that, not just because the runner slides.
2) In either case, if no throw or bad throw or no play, then there might be OBS, but no award as it didn't keep the runner from reaching the base.