The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 20, 2005, 09:18am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 120
Italian softball umpires are discussing about this:

R1 on first base. No outs.
B1 at bat with a BASEBALL bat (i.e. an illegal bat) hit a grounder that F4 plays on 2nd, retiring R1.
B1 is now safe at first.
Defensive coach appeals the umpire about the illegal bat.
Of course B1 is out and the illegal bat is removed from the game.

Now the question is:
Do the other out (on R1) stand? Or the ump should better send back the runner on first base?

We discuss among us about this and decided we can rule this situation accordingly to the Batting Out of Order Rule. So that the play/out stands.

Do you agree with this? Or we'd better send back the runner on first?

Thanks in advance for every hint/suggestion.

A.

VERY IMPORTANT: In Italy the only Rule Book we use is ISF one.
__________________
Antonella
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 20, 2005, 12:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 25
I would have to disagree.

Rule 5-2 Effect- Batting out of order specifically states that any out on the play stands

whereas

Rule 5-6c - making contact with an illegal or altered bat makes no mention of any out standing.

therefore

given the difference in the wording in the rulebook for these two plays, I would have to say that the out stands in BOO situation but not in an illegal bat situation.
__________________
Matt -- Ottawa Blue
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 20, 2005, 02:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Woodstock, GA; Atlanta area
Posts: 2,809
ASA has a specific rule citation (8-7X) saying runners put out when batter is discovered using an illegal bat, if appealed before the next pitch, stay out. The equivalent ISF section (8-9, The Runner is out when does not have this same rule, and it isn't stated in any reference to using an illegal bat that anyone other than the batter is out.

I would say batter is out, and runners return to the last base legally touched at the time of the pitch.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 20, 2005, 03:43pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally posted by AtlUmpSteve
ASA has a specific rule citation (8-7X) saying runners put out when batter is discovered using an illegal bat, if appealed before the next pitch, stay out. The equivalent ISF section (8-9, The Runner is out when does not have this same rule, and it isn't stated in any reference to using an illegal bat that anyone other than the batter is out.

I would say batter is out, and runners return to the last base legally touched at the time of the pitch.
sorry my English it isn't too correct.
also in Italy we want to maintain the out on the runner but on the rule isf it misses the precise statement on this particular case

One Thousand thanks for the precision
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 20, 2005, 11:43pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,560
Quote:
Originally posted by 18597
I would have to disagree.

Rule 5-2 Effect- Batting out of order specifically states that any out on the play stands

whereas

Rule 5-6c - making contact with an illegal or altered bat makes no mention of any out standing.
Say what? Rule 5 (ISF) has nothing to do with this. You must have meant Rule 7. Nonetheless, I cannot find anything in the book to support keeping an out made during a play which was initiated by the use of an illegal bat.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 20, 2005, 11:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Back in TX, formerly Seattle area
Posts: 1,279
I think the ISF UIC and assistant UIC need to address that at the next opportunity...this year, isn't it?
__________________
John
An ucking fidiot
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 23, 2005, 03:36am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 120
BOO Rule was modified some years ago. ISF decided every out stands because (I was taught this way) the SPIRIT of the rule was no advantage can come to offensive IF they commit an illegal act.

I KNOW there is NOTHING on the rulebook says you can mantain an out e.g. in the situation of my initial post.
But I also know there is NOTHING says runner must go back to the last base... etc.
So that my question was about your.... 'sensations' on this sitch. Do you think it could be better (always thinking about the SPIRIT of the rule) to mantain that play/out or not?

Thanks for you patience!

A.
__________________
Antonella
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 24, 2005, 07:46am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Quote:
Originally posted by 18597
I would have to disagree.

Rule 5-2 Effect- Batting out of order specifically states that any out on the play stands

whereas

Rule 5-6c - making contact with an illegal or altered bat makes no mention of any out standing.
Say what? Rule 5 (ISF) has nothing to do with this. You must have meant Rule 7. Nonetheless, I cannot find anything in the book to support keeping an out made during a play which was initiated by the use of an illegal bat.

My Bad. I meant rule 7.
__________________
Matt -- Ottawa Blue
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:32pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1