Illegal bat

[Antonella]

Italian softball umpires are discussing about this:

R1 on first base. No outs.
B1 at bat with a BASEBALL bat (i.e. an illegal bat) hit a grounder that F4 plays on 2nd, retiring R1.
B1 is now safe at first.
Defensive coach appeals the umpire about the illegal bat.
Of course B1 is out and the illegal bat is removed from the game.

Now the question is:
Do the other out (on R1) stand? Or the ump should better send back the runner on first base?

We discuss among us about this and decided we can rule this situation accordingly to the Batting Out of Order Rule. So that the play/out stands.

Do you agree with this? Or we'd better send back the runner on first?

Thanks in advance for every hint/suggestion.

A.

VERY IMPORTANT: In Italy the only Rule Book we use is ISF one.

[18597]

I would have to disagree.

Rule 5-2 Effect- Batting out of order specifically states that any out on the play stands

whereas

Rule 5-6c - making contact with an illegal or altered bat makes no mention of any out standing.

therefore

given the difference in the wording in the rulebook for these two plays, I would have to say that the out stands in BOO situation but not in an illegal bat situation.

[AtlUmpSteve]

ASA has a specific rule citation (8-7X) saying runners put out when batter is discovered using an illegal bat, if appealed before the next pitch, stay out. The equivalent ISF section (8-9, The Runner is out when does not have this same rule, and it isn't stated in any reference to using an illegal bat that anyone other than the batter is out.

I would say batter is out, and runners return to the last base legally touched at the time of the pitch.

[dario61]

Originally posted by AtlUmpSteve
ASA has a specific rule citation (8-7X) saying runners put out when batter is discovered using an illegal bat, if appealed before the next pitch, stay out. The equivalent ISF section (8-9, The Runner is out when does not have this same rule, and it isn't stated in any reference to using an illegal bat that anyone other than the batter is out.

I would say batter is out, and runners return to the last base legally touched at the time of the pitch.

sorry my English it isn't too correct.
also in Italy we want to maintain the out on the runner but on the rule isf it misses the precise statement on this particular case

One Thousand thanks for the precision

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by 18597
I would have to disagree.

Rule 5-2 Effect- Batting out of order specifically states that any out on the play stands

whereas

Rule 5-6c - making contact with an illegal or altered bat makes no mention of any out standing.

Say what? Rule 5 (ISF) has nothing to do with this. You must have meant Rule 7. Nonetheless, I cannot find anything in the book to support keeping an out made during a play which was initiated by the use of an illegal bat.

[bkbjones]

I think the ISF UIC and assistant UIC need to address that at the next opportunity...this year, isn't it?

[Antonella]

BOO Rule was modified some years ago. ISF decided every out stands because (I was taught this way) the SPIRIT of the rule was no advantage can come to offensive IF they commit an illegal act.

I KNOW there is NOTHING on the rulebook says you can mantain an out e.g. in the situation of my initial post.
But I also know there is NOTHING says runner must go back to the last base... etc.
So that my question was about your.... 'sensations' on this sitch. Do you think it could be better (always thinking about the SPIRIT of the rule) to mantain that play/out or not?

Thanks for you patience!

A.

[18597]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Say what? Rule 5 (ISF) has nothing to do with this. You must have meant Rule 7. Nonetheless, I cannot find anything in the book to support keeping an out made during a play which was initiated by the use of an illegal bat.

My Bad. I meant rule 7.