ASA pitching rule

coachfanmom · #1 (**permalink**) Tue May 17, 2005, 10:38am

I'm at work and left my rule book at the house this morning..... can someone give me the Pitching rules on the arm movements of a legal pitch.....I'm still trying to understand where the "extra movement past the hip" came from on that call last night.....why oh why do I let such things eat away at me????? Is there a pill I can take to calm my nerves for incompetentcy? lol.....Don't get me wrong Blue.....I have the utmost respect for those that study your softball bibles lol.....but for those that feel that they are just out there to try and prove how "knowledgeable" they are without the backup power of a rulebook just blow my mind......

We lost the game by 1 RUN (hahaha) last night....so devistating to my pitcher whos pitching 40mph at 11 years old and is accurate when given the proper instructions....breaks my heart.

[Edited by coachfanmom on May 18th, 2005 at 11:37 AM]

mcrowder · #2 (**permalink**) Tue May 17, 2005, 10:44am

First, there's no extra movement past the hip rule - your umpire was drunk. Suggestion for the future. Read, reread, and re-reread this rule. Next umpire that tries to F---ool with your pitcher's motion (assuming your pitcher's motion is legal!) should have his instructions protested. Then if you lose the game because of this, you have a backup plan.

Second - I'd love to ask your question, but truly, the ASA rulebook on the pitcher's motion is 8 pages long.

coachfanmom · #3 (**permalink**) Tue May 17, 2005, 10:48am

darn it....thought it was shorter than that....guess I couldn't beg and plead for a fax huh??? lol..... Thanks for answering. I can't wait till our next game....two more to go then tournament ball begins.....then we can have some fun with people that KNOW what they are doing at least.

Dakota · #4 (**permalink**) Tue May 17, 2005, 11:06am

Simply put:

The pitch starts when the hands separate.
The pitcher may take a backswing before beginning the forward windmill (assuming windmill motion here).
Once the forward motion starts, the pitcher may not stop or reverse the motion prior to delivery of the pitch.
The pitcher must not throw sidearm.
The pitcher must not make another revolution of the arm after release.
The pitcher must not make two complete revolutions with the arm before release.

This part of the rule is only about 1 page long, but I'd rather not type the whole thing.

Dakota · #5 (**permalink**) Tue May 17, 2005, 11:09am

PS: "Times past the hip" is not in the rule.

Anywhere.

At all.

Not present.

Nonexistent.

Nowhere to be found.

coachfanmom · #6 (**permalink**) Tue May 17, 2005, 11:19am

LOL....think I got it!! Guess I should have made her SHOW me that part last night but I was already convenced she was on drugs that I just tole my pitcher to continue on as she has done for the past 5 years and not listen to it.....but now curiosity is getting to me as to WHERE in the world she got that interpretation of it at.......thanks you guys!! Think I'll go to the field tonight just to sit and watch what she calls tonight.

mcrowder · #7 (**permalink**) Tue May 17, 2005, 01:12pm

You'd be surprised what I've heard from PARTNERS.

"She can't go past the hip on the backswing."
"She can go past the hip on the backswing, but her elbow can't." (I suppose this rule was put in for the doublejointed pitchers).
"She can't lift her hands above her shoulders with the ball in her glove before the backswing."

My response to any oddness --- "Really? Based on what rule. I'll give you my paycheck for the day if you can find that rule. You pay me $10 if you're wrong." I've yet to pay up. And the $10 they lose is better than any clinic.

coachfanmom · #8 (**permalink**) Tue May 17, 2005, 01:22pm

LOL....wish you were near us....sounds like you'd be a great one to have during a game. My daughter started pitching at 6....is 11 now.....has some "attitude" issues but makes a darn good pitcher when left alone to do her thing. Guess that's what really got to me last night was here was this "wanna be" who couldn't make it trying to tell someone that has been pitching for 5 years with instruction from professionals how to pitch a ball. Funny how she has never been called on an IP before. But that's part of the game....we can't all always agree but it sure is nice to have an ump with a brain that knows how to use it.

tcannizzo · #9 (**permalink**) Tue May 17, 2005, 01:36pm

Rule 6.3.K (FP)
"The pitcher must not make another revolution after pitching the ball."

Rule 6.3.I (Modified)
"The pitcher shall release the ball on the first forward swing of the arm past the hip."

Rule 6.3.D (SP)
"The pitcher must deliver the ball on the first forward motion...past the hip."

POE #40 - Pitching (FP)(pg 152)
"The pitcher's hand may go past the hip twice, as long as there are not two complete revolutions. The wrist may not be farther from the hip than the elbow."

Slow Pitch Plate Mechanics - Page 209
In determining an illegal pitch - "Was the ball released first time past the hip?"

coachfanmom · #10 (**permalink**) Tue May 17, 2005, 01:52pm

she drops her hands down to her side (not "past" her hip) then brings them back up pointing her glove towards homeplate, then drops ball arm directly behind her (passing the hip once) as far as possible then makes the forward revolution as she pushes off the mound releasing the ball and pulls up to end the pitch....only going "past" the hip two times with just one revolution.

coachfanmom · #11 (**permalink**) Tue May 17, 2005, 01:57pm

Thanks tcannizzo.....I've been wondering where the "hip" part came into play from....will look that up when i get home tonight.

tcannizzo · #12 (**permalink**) Tue May 17, 2005, 02:17pm

Quote:

Originally posted by coachfanmom
she drops her hands down to her side (not "past" her hip) then brings them back up pointing her glove towards homeplate, then drops ball arm directly behind her (passing the hip once) as far as possible then makes the forward revolution as she pushes off the mound releasing the ball and pulls up to end the pitch....only going "past" the hip two times with just one revolution.

Sounds like the old "double pump" motion. Completely legal. She can rock her arm back and forth as many times as she likes (within the alloted 10 seconds), and still be legal. As a double-pumper, she should be careful not to bring her hands together for a second time as that would result in an illegal pitch.

coachfanmom · #13 (**permalink**) Tue May 17, 2005, 02:20pm

correct!! and I have tried to explain to her that doing that a lot will wear her out more and it's not an every pitch situation.....sometimes she says she just needs that extra Boost that it gives her.....but she knows not to bring her hands together but to start the pitch.....

Dakota · #14 (**permalink**) Tue May 17, 2005, 09:29pm

Quote:

Originally posted by coachfanmom
she drops her hands down to her side (not "past" her hip) then brings them back up pointing her glove towards homeplate, then drops ball arm directly behind her (passing the hip once) as far as possible then makes the forward revolution as she pushes off the mound releasing the ball and pulls up to end the pitch....only going "past" the hip two times with just one revolution.

When do the hands separate in this? If they have separated before this begins, this is an illegal pitch. She cannot reverse the forward motion once the hands separate. She can take a backswing, but once she starts forward from the backswing, she may not reverse again.

Quote:

Originally posted by tcannizzo
Sounds like the old "double pump" motion. Completely legal. She can rock her arm back and forth as many times as she likes (within the alloted 10 seconds), and still be legal. As a double-pumper, she should be careful not to bring her hands together for a second time as that would result in an illegal pitch.

Tcannizzo, you posted some rules for slowpitch and modified pitch. They do have regulations regarding passing the hip. I was assuming coachfanmom was asking about fastpitch. The regulation there is she may not make two complete revolutions. No mention of the hip. The mention in the POE is negative - refuting the "can't pass the hip twice" - recognizing that this is a common myth.

Also, the quote above is wrong, assuming the hands have separated. Once the hands separate, there can be no reversal of the forward motion. The "double pump" after tghe hands have separated is illegal.

tcannizzo · #15 (**permalink**) Wed May 18, 2005, 08:34am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dakota
When do the hands separate in this? If they have separated before this begins, this is an illegal pitch. She cannot reverse the forward motion once the hands separate. She can take a backswing, but once she starts forward from the backswing, she may not reverse again.
...
Also, the quote above is wrong, assuming the hands have separated. Once the hands separate, there can be no reversal of the forward motion. The "double pump" after tghe hands have separated is illegal.

Had a double pumper last night. Approaches the plate with hands separarated. Starts arms swinging before hands come together. Hands come together above her head, then separate to begin the full windmill. Perfectly legal.

Quote:

Tcannizzo, you posted some rules for slowpitch and modified pitch. They do have regulations regarding passing the hip. I was assuming coachfanmom was asking about fastpitch. The regulation there is she may not make two complete revolutions. No mention of the hip. The mention in the POE is negative - refuting the "can't pass the hip twice" - recognizing that this is a common myth.

Right, just pointing out references to hip. So, we do not have a drunken umpire, we just have an umpire who is either applying a pitching rule from the wrong division (SP, MFP) or misapplying the FP rule based on his interpretation of the POE.