Illegal Pitch?

tcannizzo · #1 (**permalink**) Sun May 15, 2005, 10:59am

While still off the pitcher plate, P has ball in glove with hands together. Possibly working to get a grip for the next pitch. P then slides the glove off her glove hand and keeps her pitching hand on the ball in the glove and steps on the pitcher plate.

Are her hands considered to be separated? I think - yes.

Is the glove a foreign substance on the ball? I think - no.

Did she gain an advantage? I think - yes.

Is this an illegal pitch? I think - no.

IRISHMAFIA · #2 (**permalink**) Sun May 15, 2005, 01:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tcannizzo
While still off the pitcher plate, P has ball in glove with hands together. Possibly working to get a grip for the next pitch. P then slides the glove off her glove hand and keeps her pitching hand on the ball in the glove and steps on the pitcher plate.

Are her hands considered to be separated? I think - yes.

Is the glove a foreign substance on the ball? I think - no.

Did she gain an advantage? I think - yes.

Is this an illegal pitch? I think - no.

What advantage? The pitch has yet to start.

bethsdad · #3 (**permalink**) Sun May 15, 2005, 09:07pm

Does an advantage have anything to do with the pitching rules ? Brian

tcannizzo · #4 (**permalink**) Sun May 15, 2005, 10:42pm

No productive conversation about "advantage", so consider that statement withdrawn.

Except for the confusion about "advantage", I take it there is no disagreement with the rest of my post?

SC Ump · #5 (**permalink**) Mon May 16, 2005, 04:44am

I'm understanding the following: a right handed pitcher for example with the ball in her right hand; this right hand and ball is covered by this detached glove; and left hand is not touching the ball or glove.

My understanding is that the hands are apart. The glove could only be ruled as foreign substance if it was stuck to the ball and remained attached as the ball was delivered to home plate.

The following is for FED fastpitch:

This action in itself is not an illegal pitch, but I would bet that with such a variation from a standard pitching motion that some other act would be illegal. Like, when she brought her hands together, I presume that she would be "putting on" her glove. In that action, the hands cannot come apart and then back together a second time. She also can only have the hands together for a maxium of 10 seconds.

BTW, why are you asking? Are you just trying to get a better understanding of the rule, or did you see a pitcher do this? If you saw a pitcher do this and if she did it consistantly, did she pitch for more than a half inning? I'm betting she could not have been very good.

tcannizzo · #6 (**permalink**) Mon May 16, 2005, 06:00am

The sitch happened. P only did it once or twice. No calls were made. But thought it was rare and worth asking on a message board.

tcannizzo · #7 (**permalink**) Mon May 16, 2005, 07:38am

It is amazing how many different ways there are not to answer a question.

Dakota · #8 (**permalink**) Mon May 16, 2005, 08:55am

Her hands are separated. (Seems obvious.) A glove is not a foreign substance. (Also seems obvious.) Illegal pitch? No - what rule is she breaking?

Seems very weird. What is the glove doing - just balancing on the ball/hand?

You might be able to make some kind of case about equipment not in its proper place.

SRW · #9 (**permalink**) Mon May 16, 2005, 09:48am

Quote:

Originally posted by SC Ump
The glove could only be ruled as foreign substance if it was stuck to the ball and remained attached as the ball was delivered to home plate.

Some day I want to see that ...

rwest · #10 (**permalink**) Mon May 16, 2005, 11:41am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dakota
Her hands are separated. (Seems obvious.) A glove is not a foreign substance. (Also seems obvious.) Illegal pitch? No - what rule is she breaking?

Seems very weird. What is the glove doing - just balancing on the ball/hand?

You might be able to make some kind of case about equipment not in its proper place.

I agree with all the above, however, what I believe is more pertinent is will you call an illegal pitch if after putting her glove back on, she then separates her hands to take the sign (or simulate the taking of the sign) and then brings them back to together in the pitching position?

What is the purpose of the rule that prevents a pitcher from bringing the hands together twice? Is it not to prevent the the pitcher from confusing the batter? If so, then the pitcher is this situation did not break the spirit of the rule, just the letter of the law.

Does that matter in officiating softball?

bkbjones · #11 (**permalink**) Mon May 16, 2005, 11:51am

The reason that the pitcher can't bring the hands together twice is because...

The pitch starts when the hands separate.

So...if the hands separate...and then come back together...voila.