I didnt eject and I should have

[wadeintothem]

Yesterday JV Game- i'm working alone.

Runner sliding into 3B, beets the ball but lifts her foot off the bag just as the ball gets there and gets tagged.

I ring her up.

I am pretty close to the play - about 7 ft away I guess- I had moved way up the line as quick as I could.

Head coach at 3B literally charged me, running at me, saying "What what I watched the same play as you."

I thought for a moment we would be fighting, I had no clue what the deal was with him.

I dont know why I didnt eject that guy and argument didnt go on very long.. but I was charged for the first time.

I couldnt think of anything while he was talking to me except "eject him" .. and I still didnt eject him.

I explained the call and that was it, and he was nice as pie for the rest of the game.. but I think that was the most ejectable thing I've seen that I didnt actually eject for.

Just thought I'd mention it.

[SRW]

I give you credit for keeping him in the game... you let him say his piece, then explained it to him.

There's something to be said for a slow trigger finger.

[mcrowder]

The next umpire who has to deal with this jaggass won't appreciate that you didn't "train" him properly.

[chuck chopper]

Theres always a foggy line between really rude, ridiculous coaches behavior & ejectible coaches behavior. If he was riding my case for several innings, then that happened-GONE.
But if that was the only incident..I bite my lip, take a deep breath..move on to the next play.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by wadeintothem
Yesterday JV Game- i'm working alone.

Runner sliding into 3B, beets the ball but lifts her foot off the bag just as the ball gets there and gets tagged.

I ring her up.

I am pretty close to the play - about 7 ft away I guess- I had moved way up the line as quick as I could.

Head coach at 3B literally charged me, running at me, saying "What what I watched the same play as you."

I thought for a moment we would be fighting, I had no clue what the deal was with him.

I dont know why I didnt eject that guy and argument didnt go on very long.. but I was charged for the first time.

I couldnt think of anything while he was talking to me except "eject him" .. and I still didnt eject him.

I explained the call and that was it, and he was nice as pie for the rest of the game.. but I think that was the most ejectable thing I've seen that I didnt actually eject for.

Just thought I'd mention it.

It's great that the coach settled down after the explanation, but don't get comfortable with people coming at you. In the HS game, you should always have an administrator present to handle these circumstances, however, when working games of other organizations, it may be a different story.

In today's environment, you never know who is going to go off the deep end over something as trivial as a simple call at a sporting event. That in itself is a pity and an embarrassing reflection of our world.

When someone heads toward you in a charging fashion (and no, a coach running to get into an argument ASAP is not an excuse), you need to be wary, take a step BACK, not toward the oncoming individual. If there is plenty of space between you and him/her, hold up your hand, palm toward the individual and tell them to stop in a stern, but not threatening manner. Not "stop, or else", "stop, or you're gone", etc., just "STOP".

If you feel threatened to the point that you need to take that step backward, you should probably get rid of that person AFTER s/he has stopped, been restrained or removed from the area. There is no benefit of being the nice guy. Be firm, decisive and in complete control of yourself and the game.

It is not unlikely that someone you dump for charging you will want to "talk it out". Never do this until after the game in an area away from the field and do not do it alone. If you have no partner or someone to support/witness the discussion, decline until a later date when it may be possible.

[tzme415]

When does a coach, captain, player running toward you become charging at you? Does it depend on where they stop?

Since I usually do adult SP, there isn't a coach, but a captain. The captain may be playing in the field, on base, or in the dugout, so they come running from any direction. And of course everyone wants to get in on the conversation.

How do I know where to draw the line? I don't take things that happen on the field personal and don't rattle easily, but I don't want to make things worse for those who aren't as 'thick-skinned' as I am either.

[wadeintothem]

well.. he was in the box, I made the call and he came running at me yelling just like on TV. I considered it charging.

I appreciate Mikes and everyones advice on this...

I am about to head off to do a Varsity game that will determine a playoff spot with a head coach of one of the teams that leaves much to be desired in the "good sport" category.. and his reputation is definately earned.

I have the plate .. but hopefully I have no stories to tell afterwards.

I also have a slow trigger.. and even mock some on here when they instantly respond "eject".. but I really felt what the coach did was unnecessary and certainly no one could fault a blue who did toss him. Most ejections I do, and both of them this year (which were really "benchings"), are rules based for malicious contact... not attitude based.

To be honest I may have ejected him but I know what happens afterwards, it just ends up being an ugly situation and doesnt really solve anything. If anything, an ejection leads to a crappy pissed off game. It doesnt fix it in most cases. The coach was good afterwards.. so it all worked out. But he definately was as close as I can get to pulling the trigger without pulling it. Plus I know this guy and over all hes a damn decent coach, even the way he interacts with his team. You know a coach first and foremost by the way he deals with his team. I think he missed his girl pulling her foot up... so all he saw was the girl beat the throw, which she did. She pulled it up during my pause before I make the call.. but he was doing his coaches "safe" thing and didnt see it.

Wish me luck with the "evil one".

[Edited by wadeintothem on May 12th, 2005 at 05:03 PM]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Apparently, you are under the impression that we, as umpires, eject players and/or coaches. We, or at least, I don't, they dump themselves. An ejection is a serious issue and I am not one to support tossing a player out of spite or "just because".

I have never tossed a player that did not deserve to leave the game. It is not unusual for an ejected player/coach's team to thank an umpire for getting rid of that individual. I have often observed that a team which loses a player often becomes more focused and steps their game up a level. Remember, my experience is more with adult players, but there have been some JO teams I've seen to the same.

[mcrowder]

Good luck..

I don't have the reputation as a guy with a quick trigger... but to answer the question - when does running at you become charging? The moment the running starts. If coach/captain calls time, gets my attention, and THEN jogs/runs over - that's a completely different thing. But coach coming out of the dugout or running halfway across the field aggressively is charging. Buh-bye coach.

[Alameda]

Without hijacking this thread...you've made me think.

Was I too leanient with this player?


I had one the other day.

Him: "What, Blue!?!! Common, that's the highest strike you've called all night!!!"

Me: "That's the tallest batter to bat all night."

Him: "That can't be a strike!!"

Me: "Are you argueing balls and strikes with me?"

Him: (under his breath) "F that", then loader "That's not a strike!"

Me: "Are you argueing balls and strikes with me?"

He then walked away and shut his trap.

Was that ok, or should I extend my rabbit ears and acknowledge his swearing?

I figued he got the point, he shut his trap...game went on.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Alameda


Him: (under his breath) "F that", then loader "That's not a strike!"

Speaking ASA

There is no language rule. Players can say whatever they like. However, like taking a chance on touching the base and the umpire not seeing it to rule on a proper appeal, it is the umpire's discretion of what is USC. A player/coach is more likely to get dumped when they start a sentence with "You" than they are if they begin with "F***".

Don't ask a coach or player if they are arguing balls and strikes. Any dissenting comment questioning your judgment on balls and/or strikes is enough.

When you hear it, just tell the coach that the team is warned for arguing balls and strikes, next occurance will result in an ejection. That usually shuts them up or quiets them down, whichever way, the point is achieved.

[bluezebra]

"Head coach at 3B literally charged me, running at me, saying..."

When a coach charges, EJECT.

Bob

[Alameda]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

There is no language rule. Players can say whatever they like. However, like taking a chance on touching the base and the umpire not seeing it to rule on a proper appeal, it is the umpire's discretion of what is USC. A player/coach is more likely to get dumped when they start a sentence with "You" than they are if they begin with "F***".

Don't ask a coach or player if they are arguing balls and strikes. Any dissenting comment questioning your judgment on balls and/or strikes is enough.

When you hear it, just tell the coach that the team is warned for arguing balls and strikes, next occurance will result in an ejection. That usually shuts them up or quiets them down, whichever way, the point is achieved.

Thank you for that boost of confidence/leadership out there. I didn't want to sound to cocky out there, I know the disvs I'm doing, as a rookie, are rec and supposed to be for fun (Tell that to some of the players and Umps tho, sigh).

And Blue Zebra,

Sound advice I will carry onto the field.

TY both.

[Edited by Alameda on May 13th, 2005 at 04:26 AM]

[Steve M]

Wade,
Here are some thoughts I've got regarding your JV coach and what happened. When unchecked, things & people genereally escalate. Somebody before your game did not do their job properly and allowed this coach to think that what he did was OK. It wasn't. You had the chance to fix that by handling the situation correctly. You didn't. Now, this coach is likely to do this again, maybe/probably even more vehemently. Somebody else is now going to have to clean up this mess.

Mike made the statement that he does not toss anyone who didn't toss themselves through their actions. I agree with that, completely. I've not tossed anyone this year ( and only tossed 5 in the last 3 years - over 650 games). I'd like to think that should the need arise, I will recognize it and handle it. I think that's a real key point here - recognize the situation, be ready to handle it, and handle it.

[Chess Ref]

i should have had two ejections this year. I didn't eject either coach. i keep expecting these role models, these guiders of our youth, to act and behave right. In SB the behavior is alot better than Basketball but there are times the adults are just whacked.
Maybe my attitude will change when I have more experience under my belt but I still get taken aback by the bad behavior from the adults.