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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 07:12am
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OK, I'll start by saying I know the proper mechanics is to only SIGNAL fair ball and not verbalize it.
Having said that . . .
Freshman game. R1 and R2. 0 outs. Batter lays down a bunt that stops just off the plate in fair territory ( directly in front of the plate ). F1 and F2 converge and pick up the ball. I step to the 1st base side out of the way and signal fair ball. Nobody - and I mean nobody - moves. Runners are several feet away from their bases. Batter/runner is standing in the box still - bat in hand. It seems like eternity and no one is moving. Probably only 3 seconds -maybe 4. I have not moved ( other than I feel like I am doing the Tomahawk Chop ). Finally I state " Fair ball " fairly loud. Lots of screaming and scrambling and ladies running everywhere. F2 throws to 1st to retire batter/runner and after dust settles, we resume play with absolutely no complaints about the play.
My question - should I have made the statement or just stood there and wait out the outcome?
Again, I know it is improper mechanics. I just didn't know what else to do.
Thanks in advance for your comments.
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 07:31am
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I've never had this one happen to me when I'm behind the dish, but I have seen it happen. What I would do, personally, is just wait. I would stand on the 3rd base line with my arm pointing into fair territory. I would not move, just stand there. I learned long ago, never to call a ball "fair". That's a mistake just waiting to explode into a problem!

Eventually, one of the coaches will get the hint, and all heck will break loose!

Again, this is probably how I would handle it.
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 07:35am
Ref Ump Welsch
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Sounds like the coaches in this situation didn't know what was going on either. Freshman level ball can be the worse when it comes to cluelessness, no matter the sport. If it were me (and I know I'm going to get ragged for this!), I would have just stayed there and continued the proper mechanic until something happened, even if it takes up the time limit!
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 07:35am
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I've had this happen exactly once - on a bunt fielded directly on the plate. I simply stood there pointing at fair ground waiting for action. F2 even threw the ball back to F1. Took about 7-8 seconds before anyone did anything, and the first action must have been whispered from 1BC to R1 on first. I could see 1BC trying to get batter's attention. Finally did - F1 still oblivious. Safe at 1st and 2nd.
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 08:23am
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Quote:
Originally posted by mcrowder
I've had this happen exactly once - on a bunt fielded directly on the plate. I simply stood there pointing at fair ground waiting for action. F2 even threw the ball back to F1. Took about 7-8 seconds before anyone did anything, and the first action must have been whispered from 1BC to R1 on first. I could see 1BC trying to get batter's attention. Finally did - F1 still oblivious. Safe at 1st and 2nd.
Thank you everyone, for the replies. It sounds like I was wrong ( which I was sure I was ), and should have just waited them out. It was quite ugly. 1st time it ever happened to me, but I will be prepared for it next time to be sure.

mc - my question to you would then be in your situation, if F1 has the ball in the circle, can R1 still advance to 2nd if B/R goes to 1st on the fair ball call? Obviously it is still a live fair ball. Does anything prevent R1 from advancing even though F1 has the ball in the 8ft. circle?

Again, thanks to all for the feedback. Good point about an explosion if ( when ) I verbalize
" Fair Ball ".

Oh by the way, I think my mechanics were wrong too. I was on the 1st base side of the plate ( right handed batter ) and I thought I was out of the way for the play to progress. Should I have been on the 3rd base side to make this call?
Thanks.
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 08:46am
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The Other Side of Opening My Mouth

Preconference Varsity Tourney I'M the PU. Runners on 2B +3B. Batter nails one down the LF line, close to the line. I, in all my newby glory, run out from behind the plate screaming like a madman "Fair Ball" "Fair Ball ". At least half the players involved, batter and runner on 3B stop in their tracks.
They thought I was screaming Foul Ball. Lucky for me BU was 20 year vet who knew what he was doing and cleaned the mess up for me. So I learned early on no calling Fair Balls. And I haven't done it again this year.
I understand SITCH is different but i learned the reason why we only call foul balls.
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 10:55am
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LBR

Tony,

To try and answer your question about whether or not R1 can advance to 2nd if the pitcher has the ball in the circle and BR has advanced to 1st. The LBR goes into effect once the pitcher has the ball in the circle and the BR has touched 1st or is declared out. I would say that R1 has to proceed to 2nd. If she hesitates between 1st and 2nd for more that a heartbeat, you could get her on the LBR.
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 01:12pm
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Tony,
I would have stood there until it was obvious nobody knew what to do and then said something to the effect, "That's a live ball", "That's a good ball we need to do something!" This would get the point accross that there needs to be a play without the chance of Foul and Fair being confused, and also it is neutral to offense and defense (unlike, "You need to run" or "You better get the ball" etc). But that is JMO of what I would do.
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 01:13pm
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Re: LBR

Quote:
Originally posted by streamdoc
Tony,

To try and answer your question about whether or not R1 can advance to 2nd if the pitcher has the ball in the circle and BR has advanced to 1st. The LBR goes into effect once the pitcher has the ball in the circle and the BR has touched 1st or is declared out. I would say that R1 has to proceed to 2nd. If she hesitates between 1st and 2nd for more that a heartbeat, you could get her on the LBR.
Only after BR has touched first or is out! In the cited plays, BR was still standing in or near the batters box, and no play had been made.
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 01:17pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by officialtony
OK, I'll start by saying I know the proper mechanics is to only SIGNAL fair ball and not verbalize it.
Having said that . . .
Freshman game. R1 and R2. 0 outs. Batter lays down a bunt that stops just off the plate in fair territory ( directly in front of the plate ). F1 and F2 converge and pick up the ball. I step to the 1st base side out of the way and signal fair ball. Nobody - and I mean nobody - moves. Runners are several feet away from their bases. Batter/runner is standing in the box still - bat in hand. It seems like eternity and no one is moving. Probably only 3 seconds -maybe 4. I have not moved ( other than I feel like I am doing the Tomahawk Chop ). Finally I state " Fair ball " fairly loud. Lots of screaming and scrambling and ladies running everywhere. F2 throws to 1st to retire batter/runner and after dust settles, we resume play with absolutely no complaints about the play.
My question - should I have made the statement or just stood there and wait out the outcome?
Again, I know it is improper mechanics. I just didn't know what else to do.
Thanks in advance for your comments.
I like Henry Pollard's answer to this sitch.
He said that he looked at everyone and said; "Somebody ought to run now, don't you think?"
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 01:25pm
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In reading the rule, it looks like you could get R1 on the LBR, if she meets the conditions. I don't understand why this rule does not take the LBR off when the runner is forced to the next base, but that is how it is written. I would think, "This is a live ball. If R1 hesitates or looks back, so what? There is a force at 2nd, if defense wants the out, then get the force." But this is not the rule as I read it. Of course the LBR would only be once BR reached 1st.

[Edited by tzme415 on May 4th, 2005 at 02:28 PM]
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 01:39pm
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LBR would kick in once BR reached first and pitcher had the ball in the circle, making no play.

But as long as R1 was making progress toward 2nd without stopping, she'd not be out. Even if she stayed on first - you could use the same logic to stop play and put her on 2nd that many use to stop play and move a runner from 2nd to 1st on a play where 2 runners end on 2nd with the ball in the circle.
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 02:23pm
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I understand, but

I read Tony's follow-up question to mc as asking what if...?

"mc - my question to you would then be in your situation, if F1 has the ball in the circle, can R1 still advance to 2nd if B/R goes to 1st on the fair ball call? Obviously it is still a live fair ball. Does anything prevent R1 from advancing even though F1 has the ball in the 8ft. circle?"

He is clearly asking what happens IF the BR goes to first, so this is a different situation than what he asked in his original post. That is what I was addressing, although I'm not mc. I believe that I, mc and tzme415 all adressed Tony's second question.

BTW - how do you guys get text from someone else's post to show up as bold in your reply? I copied and pasted, but it just shows up as the same kind of text as that which I am writing. Thanks.
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 02:55pm
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Go to the bottom of the posting you want to quote, them hit the "quote" icon there. It starts your reply quoting them, and puts them in bold. You can also use the vB symbols it shows you in the reply on your own.
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Old Thu May 05, 2005, 10:33am
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Everyone,
Thank you for your responses. I am new to softball and was clearly confused by what I should do ( even though I knew what proper mechanics were ). And thank you for the response to my second part of the question as far as R1 going or staying. I have been enlightened. These ladies have an interesting way of playing the game and I really enjoyed myself even though it was - well - " interesting " at times.
Again Thanks!
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