Unreported sub or illegal sub

[Dakota]

Explain to me how you would keep a legal lineup card in your pocket without "coddling" the coach who is reporting an illegal change to the lineup? A change to the lineup is required, by rule, to go through the plate umpire. The only way an illegal player should ever end up in the game is if the illegal player is also unreported.

I "volunteer" the number of outs sometimes, especially if I am working alone. I also will tell any player or coach who asks. If I'm PU, after a long pause (such as bringing in a relief pitcher, tending to an injured player, etc.) I will restate the count (if applicable) and the number of outs. However, I find the practice of pointing out to the relief pitcher where the runners are to be mildly bush league and unnecessary.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by umpire12

so, lets take this to the nth degree...2nd inning: blue, i want my flex to hit for my left fielder. coach, you cant do that. lets take a look at your lineup and see what we can do.

Why look at the lineup card to see what we can do, when there is nothing "we can do"?
If F7 is the current batter, the answer is simply, "Flex can only hit for DP."

Originally Posted by umpire12

blue, i to put a courtesy runner in for my shortstop. coach, you cant do that. lets take a look at your lineup and see whos pitching and catching.

Why would you look at the lineup card to see what we can do, when there is nothing "we can do"?
"Coach, you can only CR for P or C."

Originally Posted by umpire12

blue, id like my sub who already reentered to enter again. coach, you cant do that. lets take a look at your lineup and see what we can do..

Why would you look at the lineup card to see what we can do, when there is nothing "we can do"?
"Coach, your sub is done and may not re-enter."

Originally Posted by umpire12

3rd inning: the same...4th inning the same....etc......you would continue to assist the coach ?

I do not consider any of my responses assisting the coach.

Question to you, is why did coach wait until the 2nd inning?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by umpire12

so, your answer is yes, i would let it continue?....there comes a point where, yes, i condider it assisting and becomes unfair to the other team

Simple answer to all of your scenarios.

"No, coach, you can't do that." Possibly a brief explanation along the lines tcannizzo gave, but that's it. If he is truly so clueless he continues to offer illegal changes, I may just tell him to sit down unless he wants to make a legal change and quit wasting my time.

I don't understand what you would do that would not have you enter an illegal change on your lineup card. So, answer your own scenario. What would YOU do?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by umpire12

"If he is truly so clueless he continues to offer illegal changes, I may just tell him to sit down unless he wants to make a legal change and quit wasting my time".


so you would deny him the opportunity......i would think that would be protestable

So, I ask again, what would you do? (And denying a coach the opportunity to make an illegal change is hardly protestable.)

[Dakota]

What would you do? Answer the question.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Dakota

What would you do? Answer the question.

Dakota,
I'm not sure where this is going...

FWIW, here is what I would do.

After the sub was given to me and (before I accepted it) I noticed it would be illegal, I would inform the coach that the substitution would be illegal - he can't do it.
I can't imagine him insisting I make the substitution, BUT if she did, I'd accept it. record it, announce it.

Then when I put the ball in play, I'd have to stop play and enforce the illegal player penalty.

I can't imagine it getting to that, but, that's all I can figure to do.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Dakota,
I'm not sure where this is going...

FWIW, here is what I would do.

After the sub was given to me and (before I accepted it) I noticed it would be illegal, I would inform the coach that the substitution would be illegal - he can't do it.
I can't imagine him insisting I make the substitution, BUT if she did,

Speaking ASA,

To start, lets note that there is no "illegal substitution" in ASA. You have an "unreported substitute" or an "illegal player".

At this point, you have already warned the coach that this substitution was a violation of the rules. If the coach then insisted on violating the rule after a warning, the game is over. (ASA 5.4.F) Extreme, absolutely. However, when you tell the coach that if s/he insist on making the change the game will be forfeited, most likely the issue would disappear.

I'd accept it. record it, announce it.

Then when I put the ball in play, I'd have to stop play and enforce the illegal player penalty.

Well, you cannot do that. If the violation is deemed that of an illegal player, this must be protested by the offended team. (ASA 4.6.E)

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Dakota,
I'm not sure where this is going...

Where this was going was trying to get our friend to quit being a troll and actually say what HE would do.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by umpire12

the reason i look at the lineup card is because i dont have the flex, dp and available and unavaiable subs memorized...ergo, 'lets take a look'

Didn't you say that the coach said "i want my flex to bat for SS"? or did the coach actually say something else, like "#22 batting for #7", then in the process of validating the substitution you noticed that #22 is Flex and #7 was not the DP. Taking to the nth degree, the DP might have been playing SS at the time.

Originally Posted by umpire12

so, your answer is yes, i would let it continue?....there comes a point where, yes, i condider it assisting and becomes unfair to the other team

The question is how long to let this thread continue trying to answer questions that you didn't ask - or did you?