Illegal Sub?

[blueump]

I need a little help on this one, so if you have your rule book in front of you (which I dont) could you please site the rule:

Last night's FED game. Home team is at bat...they have the official book. Player #14 had entered the game in the top of the inning playing first base (defensively), and now she steps to the bat. She walks.

When she gets to first, the visiting coach calls time and claims that she was an illegal batter because the home team didn't report her as a substitute. The home plate umpire checks his line-up and agrees. (The home team claims to have reported her as one of four defensive changes in the top of the inning...but the PU only recorded 3 of the changes on his lineup card)

Despite that...he calls the girl out at first (tying run on 3rd - 2 out previously) and ends the inning.

Now, since the home scorer had the change recorded in their book, is this an illegal sub or not? What is the rule/consequences for unreported subs in FED ball?

[wadeintothem]

Illegal Substitute is covered 3-4

I wasnt in the convo so I dont know if it was really unreported and the home team pulling a fast one or not.

The ump seemed plenty sure though and thats an out and restriction to bench.

[blueump]

...but since she already had played an entire defensive inning, how would the home team be "trying to pull a fast one?"

...and at what point does an unreported sub become "legal"?

Can they wait till she gets a hit 3 innings later then call her out?

[wadeintothem]

playing on defense has no bearing on it (although the sub was equally illegal, its harder to detect).. illegal sub can be discovered anytime.

An illegal sub is always an illegal sub.

[Dakota]

Assuming it was legal for the player to be batting where she was in the lineup, this was an unreported sub, not an illegal sub. Unreported subs are covered under NFHS Rule 3-3-4 and 3-6-12 PENALTY. The penalty is a team warning, and the NEXT offender is restricted to the bench. There is no OUT assessed.

Originally posted by blueump
...but since she already had played an entire defensive inning, how would the home team be "trying to pull a fast one?"

Doesn't matter - motivation is not the issue. Not reporting the sub is the issue.

Originally posted by blueump
...and at what point does an unreported sub become "legal"?

When reported.

Originally posted by blueump
...Can they wait till she gets a hit 3 innings later then call her out?

Yes, they can wait, but no they can't call her out.

Again, an illegal sub is a different (and more serious) infraction.

[DanIn]

This is not an illegal substitution. This an unreported sub. Make the correction on the lineup card and books, issue a warning to offending team. Play stands and move on.

[Skahtboi]

From what I am reading in the original post, there is nothing indicating that this is, in fact, an illegal substitute. Remember, according to NFHS, an illegal sub is a person who has entered or has re-entered the game without eligibility to do so.

From what I am reading, this is simply a case of unreported substitution, though from subsequent posts even that has been brought into doubt. However, assuming an unreported sub, the only penalty that NFHS allows for a first infraction is a team warning. That's it! Nothing more. The player is then entered onto the lineup card and is legal. The next offense and all subsequent offenses by that team result in the offending player being restricted to the dugout. NFHS Rule 3:6:12:Penalty.

[wadeintothem]

well in the scenario, it said illegal.. i can only go with what the poster said. I dont know that the player is even on the line up.. i can only go with what the OP says.

[Skahtboi]

Wow! Looks like everyone rushed in here at the same time with the correct answer. Tom wins the fastest typer award, though.

[DanIn]

Yes but I said it all in the fewest words. LOL!!!! Dan

[blueump]

Originally posted by DanIn
Yes but I said it all in the fewest words. LOL!!!! Dan

I said that the visiting team "claimed the batter was illegal" I never said that she was illegal.

Thanks again for all the help!

[wadeintothem]

you got a op saying a coach saying illegal player and a ump who called her out for it...

With those facts you must assume unreported sub; not the other way around.

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by blueump

I said that the visiting team "claimed the batter was illegal" I never said that she was illegal.

Thanks again for all the help!

You didnt? The thread is even titled illegal substitute...

Next time you want to know about unreported sub.. title it that. It makes it much easier to answer if it doesnt have to be decoded what you really want covertly.

I think you got the answer you wanted to hear "the blue messed up" so now your happy... thats just me though.

[Dakota]

wade,

I wasn't raggin' on you for the reply concerning illegal sub. That is, indeed, what the poster called it and how the umpire ruled.

But in reading the actual scenario, it seemed to me it was actually an unreported sub, since there was no evidence offered as to WHY the sub was illegal, only that the sub was unreported.

I was only pointing out that they are different, and that the penalty is very different.

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by Dakota
wade,

I wasn't raggin' on you for the reply concerning illegal sub. That is, indeed, what the poster called it and how the umpire ruled.

But in reading the actual scenario, it seemed to me it was actually an unreported sub, since there was no evidence offered as to WHY the sub was illegal, only that the sub was unreported.

I was only pointing out that they are different, and that the penalty is very different.

Ditto.