I think you guys are making this harder that it has to be.

I think what Mike Rowe was saying in that post (correct me if I'm wrong) is that in the ORIGINAL post (determined by the comment of -ship, reread the post- to start it. He was commenting that if the ball indeed started in foul territory, it had to come back to fair territory to satisfy the context of the original situation) the ball bounded by the bag and never left fair territory until it passed the bag.

Remember this, a batted ball is not a fair or foul ball until something makes it foul or fair. The ball passing 1st or 3rd base bags in fair territory make it fair. The ball coming to rest in foul territory, passing the bags in foul territory, or contacting a runner, coach, on deck hitter, helmet, bat, fence (etc) makes it foul. The ball can be in foul territory, hit a rock, come back and hit the bag (which is an object in fair territory), bound back, smack the catcher dead in the mask, and its a fair ball. The fact that the ball hit the bag MADE it a fair ball. Don't get caught up in the semantics of where the ball changed directions, that just tends to confuse you. It is what it is. The ball passing over the bag makes it fair, not where the ball started when it actually passed the bag.

Shipwreck - So, is a ball that last touched in foul ground and then crosses over first or third base fair or foul? I always thought fair but it seems that IRISHMAFIA said in a previous post on page 2 titled "fair or foul?" that it would be foul. Dave

Dave, it does not matter if the batted ball first contacts either foul or fair territory and then passes over third base in fair territory and then contacts either foul or fair territoy on its second bounce, it is a fair ball. It is the position of the ball as it bounds over or past the bag that decides if it is fair or foul ball.

It is not possible for a ball to cross or bound over a base on a properly laid out field and be in foul territory. The base is entirely in fair territory.

For crossing over the base to be a factor, the ball must be bounding (i.e. have already hit the ground). Where it hit the ground (fair or foul territory) is irrelevant, so long as it has not yet passed 1st or 3rd base.

If the bounding ball crosses over the base, it is fair.

Fair Ball!
http://www.team-xf.com/members/dogma...rdbasefair.jpg



Is this the senerio you're trying to describe? (Gotta love the divits! *sigh*)

[Edited by Alameda on Apr 14th, 2005 at 01:49 PM]

Fair ball.

It cannot bound in foul territory, pass near the base and next contact foul territory and remain fair. IOW, it had to contact fair ground either immediately before or after crossing any part of the base.

Alameda, that is EXACTLY what I was trying to describe. Dave

Mike, are you talking physics or rules?

Fast pitch, fail ball. IF one foot is on the bag, she is safe...fair ball if over third base in fair territory. Don't over analyze...have fun

booker, what are you talking about?

Sounds to me like he's agreeing with us on this. In the pic I made, it doesn't "pass near the base and next contact foul territory". It "cross over the base and next contact fair territory."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's the crux here.

I just thought of something I need to double check.

Mike, sir.

In your description to me about the smoke column on the bags and if the ball disturbs the smoke, it's fair, etc.

If a line shot directly smacks into 3rd (literally hitting the homeplate side of the bag), and then pops up, off the side of the bag, back towards homeplate and into foul ground, that -is- a fair ball, correct?


TYIA.

[Edited by Alameda on Apr 15th, 2005 at 05:37 PM]

I think if the ball hits the bag it is fair because the bases are in fair territory.

Not only that, but, speaking ASA, the rule book specifically states that any batted ball which contacts first, second or third base is a fair ball (Rule 1-Fair Ball)

Check, ...and check.


I think we've got the whole fair/foul thing down. :D

Thanks again Mike et al.