In a previous post, it was talked about a ball bounding over third base. Here is my question. A hit ball that last touches in foul ground and then crosses over third base or touches third base is a fair or foul ball? Please site rule reference. I have brought this up to numerous umpires and they all say fair ball, but umpires on this site say foul. I always thought it would be a fair ball. Dave

Rule 1.1
 

Rule 1.1, Fair Ball, definition ... and then B...would be description enough.

What umpires on this site call this foul? This is a fair ball.

Mike put it nice and simple for me. Imagine a column of smoke rising from 1st and 3rd base bags. If the ball disturbs the smoke in anyway, it's a fair ball. (Same goes for second base bag).

Hope this helps, it helped me.

Thanks Mike.

Go to the second page of posts and go to the topic "fair or foul" and see what IRISHMAFIA says there. It is the first of his posts to ship. Maybe I am reading it wrong what he is saying. Dave

[Edited by shipwreck on Apr 13th, 2005 at 06:41 PM]

A ball that is hit foul and then bounds over third base is fair?
1) If the ball is hit into foul territory and comes back into fair territory it is foul....
2) If the ball is hit into fair territory and it rolls over the base bag into foul territor it is fair.....
3) If the ball is hit into fair territory, strikes the edge of the bag and goes into foul territory it is foul ...

Show me proof of your answers. I see at least one that I think is incorrect. Dave

The only one that I agree with is #2. Because the ball either "bound" over third base (#1) or "struck" the edge of the bag, which is in fair territory (#3), the ruling would be fair.

In all the rulebooks that I am aware of, the definition of "Fair Ball" give a clear definition. Remember, it does not matter whether the ball first touches fair or foul territory, as long as it does not touch anything foreign to the natural ground in foul territory.

Serg

[Edited by VaASAump on Apr 14th, 2005 at 07:27 AM]

ASA Rule 1 Definitions -Part A, B and C.
I do stand corrected with the first one as described in the ASA casebook Play 1-38.
"When the (hit) ball settles on fair ground between home and 1B or home and 3B, it is a fair ball."
Did I pass the test? <smile>

Take a look at definition for fair ball and foul ball in ASA rules. Both of the B's apply to my case 2. The ball is fair.
A foul ball is dependent also on where it first touches the ground and where it is fielded.

Yeah, but number 2 is the only one you posted that was correct.

Also, for a ball that hasn't yet passed 1st or 3rd base, it does not matter where it first touches the ground - all that matters is where it hits something (Fence, player, glove, etc.... not rock, dirt, sand) or comes to rest.

So, is a ball that last touched in foul ground and then crosses over first or third base fair or foul? I always thought fair but it seems that IRISHMAFIA said in a previous post on page 2 titled "fair or foul?" that it would be foul. Maybe looking at IRISHMAFIA's post again, I am reading wrong what he is saying. Dave

[Edited by shipwreck on Apr 14th, 2005 at 12:18 PM]

1) this is an incomplete scenario, if the ball re entered fair territory without being touched (in foul territory) and before it passed 1st or 3rd base, it is fair.

2) this is a fair ball

3) This is a fair ball, you need to reread your rule book.

This is a fair ball, or as Henry P says, "a good ball"

I don't think Mike would have ever misstated that it would be foul.

So, is a ball that last touched in foul ground and then crosses over first or third base fair or foul? I always thought fair but it seems that IRISHMAFIA said in a previous post on page 2 titled "fair or foul?" that it would be foul. Dave

I think you guys are making this harder that it has to be.

I think what Mike Rowe was saying in that post (correct me if I'm wrong) is that in the ORIGINAL post (determined by the comment of -ship, reread the post- to start it. He was commenting that if the ball indeed started in foul territory, it had to come back to fair territory to satisfy the context of the original situation) the ball bounded by the bag and never left fair territory until it passed the bag.

Remember this, a batted ball is not a fair or foul ball until something makes it foul or fair. The ball passing 1st or 3rd base bags in fair territory make it fair. The ball coming to rest in foul territory, passing the bags in foul territory, or contacting a runner, coach, on deck hitter, helmet, bat, fence (etc) makes it foul. The ball can be in foul territory, hit a rock, come back and hit the bag (which is an object in fair territory), bound back, smack the catcher dead in the mask, and its a fair ball. The fact that the ball hit the bag MADE it a fair ball. Don't get caught up in the semantics of where the ball changed directions, that just tends to confuse you. It is what it is. The ball passing over the bag makes it fair, not where the ball started when it actually passed the bag.

Shipwreck - So, is a ball that last touched in foul ground and then crosses over first or third base fair or foul? I always thought fair but it seems that IRISHMAFIA said in a previous post on page 2 titled "fair or foul?" that it would be foul. Dave

Dave, it does not matter if the batted ball first contacts either foul or fair territory and then passes over third base in fair territory and then contacts either foul or fair territoy on its second bounce, it is a fair ball. It is the position of the ball as it bounds over or past the bag that decides if it is fair or foul ball.

It is not possible for a ball to cross or bound over a base on a properly laid out field and be in foul territory. The base is entirely in fair territory.

For crossing over the base to be a factor, the ball must be bounding (i.e. have already hit the ground). Where it hit the ground (fair or foul territory) is irrelevant, so long as it has not yet passed 1st or 3rd base.

If the bounding ball crosses over the base, it is fair.

Fair Ball!
http://www.team-xf.com/members/dogma...rdbasefair.jpg



Is this the senerio you're trying to describe? (Gotta love the divits! *sigh*)

[Edited by Alameda on Apr 14th, 2005 at 01:49 PM]

Fair ball.

It cannot bound in foul territory, pass near the base and next contact foul territory and remain fair. IOW, it had to contact fair ground either immediately before or after crossing any part of the base.

Alameda, that is EXACTLY what I was trying to describe. Dave

Mike, are you talking physics or rules?

Fast pitch, fail ball. IF one foot is on the bag, she is safe...fair ball if over third base in fair territory. Don't over analyze...have fun

booker, what are you talking about?

Sounds to me like he's agreeing with us on this. In the pic I made, it doesn't "pass near the base and next contact foul territory". It "cross over the base and next contact fair territory."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's the crux here.

I just thought of something I need to double check.

Mike, sir.

In your description to me about the smoke column on the bags and if the ball disturbs the smoke, it's fair, etc.

If a line shot directly smacks into 3rd (literally hitting the homeplate side of the bag), and then pops up, off the side of the bag, back towards homeplate and into foul ground, that -is- a fair ball, correct?


TYIA.

[Edited by Alameda on Apr 15th, 2005 at 05:37 PM]

I think if the ball hits the bag it is fair because the bases are in fair territory.

Not only that, but, speaking ASA, the rule book specifically states that any batted ball which contacts first, second or third base is a fair ball (Rule 1-Fair Ball)

Check, ...and check.


I think we've got the whole fair/foul thing down. :D

Thanks again Mike et al.

Are you sure .... High popfly to shortstop. She get scared and runs away . Ball lands behind baseLINE . Backspin on the ball causes it to roll into foul ground between home and 3rd. Brian

How many outs? Anyone on base?

JK! (was hoping to get out of this by calling 'infield fly'! :P )

Ummm, if it passed the base-line, then it passed 3rd and/or 2nd, right?

I say fair ball.

Good God, I like to see the illegal bat/wedge that makes that happen.http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/18/18_12_1.gif
Fair ball, though.